Bump Fire Stock Legislation DEAD

[Ura-Ki]

And the sad truth is nothing will be done to stop the States from doing the billionares bidding. Not untill some thing hurts bad enough, on a personal level will any one finally stand up and do something, and by then it's too late! The left knows this, it's why they take a little hear, a little there, and soon enough, they have taken every thing and we didn't do any thing to stop them!

 

[Quartermaster]

I can never knowingly hit play on a runaway yaeger video.

 

[nammac]

Not surprising that slide fire or bump stock legislation or regulation would be dead at the federal level. At least for now... Really tough to regulate a piece of polymer... And it's not the tool that's the problem, it's the moral bankruptcy of the operator...

Until we stop killing our unborn, until we put absolute value back on human life, until we refuse to be divided as Americans, until the nations moral compass is collectively restored, we will continue to see these behaviors.

There'll be more mass shootings, the liberals will rush to the cameras decrying more gun control, but they will never address the problems that they themselves are co-contributors to... The problems that are at the root of the issue...

Rather they will continue to pushtheir agenda until they finally get what they're after, a second Revolution... They're not prepared to lose that one either, but they will, just like they lost last November....

 

[2A2Dend]

Well said, nammac

 

[EPS]

Not surprising that slide fire or bump stock legislation or regulation would be dead at the federal level. At least for now... Really tough to regulate a piece of polymer... And it's not the tool that's the problem, it's the moral bankruptcy of the operator...

Until we stop killing our unborn, until we put absolute value back on human life, until we refuse to be divided as Americans, until the nations moral compass is collectively restored, we will continue to see these behaviors.

There'll be more mass shootings, the liberals will rush to the cameras decrying more gun control, but they will never address the problems that they themselves are co-contributors to... The problems that are at the root of the issue...

Rather they will continue to pushtheir agenda until they finally get what they're after, a second Revolution... They're not prepared to lose that one either, but they will, just like they lost last November....

Like I said in the other thread about this subject WE DON'T HAVE A GUN PROBLEM WE HAVE A PEOPLE PROBLEM when I was younger I had a shot gun in my truck all the time and I got Into fist fight 's but did I go to my truck and get my gun and shoot everyone nope and I know plenty of other guys and girls that had guns in there car or truck also

Lol I remember going deer hunting on the weekend going straight from hunting to school with a 30/06 behind the seat of my Chevy 4X4 truck lol even going dove hunting with my friend he had a jeep no doors no top but had a gun rack dove hunt morning go to school leave guns in jeep in school parking lot then go dove hunting after school lol

And believe it or not this was in southern California lol Bakersfield to be exact and south of there I grew up in Lancaster California

 

[StacattoP]

The fights not over guys gotta keep our heads in the game drink some cold ones tonight for the win but rember there always skeeming!

 

[Flopsweat]

And believe it or not this was in southern California lol Bakersfield to be exact and south of there I grew up in Lancaster California

It doesn't take long for feel-good legislation to kill all the fun.

 

[deadeye]

Thread cleaned please stay on topic and follow all forum rules.

 

[trikerdon]

Las Vegas shooter Stephen Paddock had a pilot's license since 2003. He could have taken every one out that night by just flying his plane into the crowd. Wonder why he didn't? Guess I will never know...

 

[CountryGent]

And it's not the tool that's the problem, it's the moral bankruptcy of the operator...

^ Exactly. I wish more of our fellow Americans could grasp that fact.

 

[biggie24420]

Every time I hear or see James Yeager, I think of Buck Angel lol.... I mean if someone told me they were brothers, I would totally believe it lol.

 

[biggie24420]

And the sad truth is nothing will be done to stop the States from doing the billionares bidding. Not untill some thing hurts bad enough, on a personal level will any one finally stand up and do something, and by then it's too late! The left knows this, it's why they take a little hear, a little there, and soon enough, they have taken every thing and we didn't do any thing to stop them!

It's ok, when the time is right, the citizens will vote

 

[Ura-Ki]

Yup, like I posted in another thread, i carry 20 votes in my rifle, and 240 more close at hand!

 

[rdb241]

Here's the deal it doesn't matter what kind of gun he used .this guy spent probley a year or more planing this and four days in the hotel getting ready for it even if he did not have access to guns he was going to kill as many people as he could he was crazy or something there is no law or anything that can stop a crazy person

Looks like you took the official bait hook line and sinker. Yes it does matter what gun he used. NOBODY has ever discussed the fact the "if" it was 1 guy and "if" he used an AR-15 with a bump stock. And finally "if" he even pulled the trigger. He could not have possibly killed anyone at the distance he was shooting. NOBODY has discussed the ballistics of a .223 bullet. Here is why. From the official press release, the window to the concert venue was over 1,100 yards. That was stated on the news. If an AR-15 was used. We are talking an extremely light bullet. 55gr-62gr .22 caliber. Yes it has a muzzle velocity is 3,200 fps. For proper fragmentation, the killing potential, is under 600 yards. That has been published in US military documents that the bullet does not have much fragmentation farther than 600 yards. I have personally shot 1,000 yard rifle matches with the Washington Army National Guard. I was using a much heavier bullet to reach the target at that range. A 168gr, .308 caliber bullet. At that distance a 168gr, .308 bullet is slowing down in a hurry. To the point that the bullet starts to topple end for end and will leave an oval hole in the paper. I have seen this for myself. With that said, there is no way a bullet that weighs almost 3 times lighter is going to reach 1,100 yards and still have enough energy to even penetrate a thick coat. It would be safe to say that a 62gr bullet would not even reach 1,100 yards. The numbers are just not there to prove otherwise. It has been stated in the news by ex military people in the crowd. That the cadence and volume of the shots fired sounded more like a .308 belt fed weapon. First one that comes to mind is a M-60. So I think that telling everyone that he used an AR-15 has more political value than a belt fed .308. Which would be illegal anyway. Who ever was behind this was not out to just kill people. It was a move to, of course ban bumpfire stocks, but also fuel to try and ban evil looking fire arms. There was way too many guns in that room for one man to use. But yet they were AR-15's and they "all" had bumpfire stocks. yes it was reported that there was a shotgun and a couple of hand guns. It has been almost a month and I am still not buying the official story.
The FBI is covering up all kinds of stuff. What Las Vegas hotel/casino does not have every square foot, cover by cameras? That also means the service elevator? The kitchen of the restarurant, the maids area, hallways, fire exits. The only place in a hotel/casino that a camera was not be there, is when you take a dump in your room. That is for personal privacy but yet they still might even have a hidden one in a room somewhere. It would be safe to say that they even have cameras in the parking garage. But not one single frame of one mans movements. When they can use a camera to watch what cards are in your hand at a table, why not any video of a guy moving several large bags? Then we hear official FBI statements like, This man was so secretive we may never know why it happened. Here it is almost a month later, and I hear on the news that this man removed his hard drive from his computer and destroyed it. I will bet money that the FBI has or has destroyed the hard drive themselves to cover there butts on that angle. My nephew works on computers and removing a hard drive is not an easy thing to do.
So for all you sheep that believe what the media tells you, wake up. I am sure not buying it. The FBI has pulled all the strings from day one and in my opinion pulled strings before the shooting. The days after, the story was always changing. Then they made it a point that things change from day to day. There is just too many open holes in the story that the FBI keeps trying to plug up. Now there is not much said about what happened in hopes people will forget the facts. So all of a sudden we have a sex scandal in Hollywood.
my rant is done, thanx.

 

[Diamondback]

Um, the slant range from that room into the crowd was 400--some old-time gunwriters I know and I worked the math trying to figure out whether or not a couple Mk 18 CQBR's in the crowd (e.g., my "briefcase AR" project) would have been within effective range to return fire, and while the 77-grain 5.56 NATO Mk 262 will easily reach to 600 yards it won't do 400 so well out of a ten-inch barrel especially fighting gravity the whole way.

MGM Mirage, the property owner, is also in Massive Coverup mode because they have potentially massive liability on this one and don't want to risk getting bent over and butt-raped in court by a Class Action.

 

[rdb241]

I distinctly remember a visual shot of the hotel to the venue. They showed the high angle with an arrow and it said above the arrow 1,125 yards. I have never ever seen anything else showing range. It is printed into my head. When I saw that, all my questions came up. It was across the street and a block and a half down the street. How many yards in a Vegas block? It was well over 400 yards.

 

[Diamondback]

Urban Sniper - Gun Hub

 

[308]

I distinctly remember a visual shot of the hotel to the venue. They showed the high angle with an arrow and it said above the arrow 1,125 yards. I have never ever seen anything else showing range. It is printed into my head. When I saw that, all my questions came up. It was across the street and a block and a half down the street. How many yards in a Vegas block? It was well over 400 yards.

There is a google earth video out there showing 600yards. The guy also did an accoustical analysis measuring the time between the recorded sound of the sonic crack and the muzzle reports. His conclusion based upon the velocity of the .223/556 was two different firing positions...~400yards and ~600yards if I remember correctly. He then used google earth to measure the radius from the reported firing postion and it matched the hotel at the 400 yard point but suggested other possible points matching what people on the groung were reporting.

 

[etrain16]

Looks like you took the official bait hook line and sinker. Yes it does matter what gun he used. NOBODY has ever discussed the fact the "if" it was 1 guy and "if" he used an AR-15 with a bump stock. And finally "if" he even pulled the trigger. He could not have possibly killed anyone at the distance he was shooting. NOBODY has discussed the ballistics of a .223 bullet. Here is why. From the official press release, the window to the concert venue was over 1,100 yards. That was stated on the news. If an AR-15 was used. We are talking an extremely light bullet. 55gr-62gr .22 caliber. Yes it has a muzzle velocity is 3,200 fps. For proper fragmentation, the killing potential, is under 600 yards. That has been published in US military documents that the bullet does not have much fragmentation farther than 600 yards. I have personally shot 1,000 yard rifle matches with the Washington Army National Guard. I was using a much heavier bullet to reach the target at that range. A 168gr, .308 caliber bullet. At that distance a 168gr, .308 bullet is slowing down in a hurry. To the point that the bullet starts to topple end for end and will leave an oval hole in the paper. I have seen this for myself. With that said, there is no way a bullet that weighs almost 3 times lighter is going to reach 1,100 yards and still have enough energy to even penetrate a thick coat. It would be safe to say that a 62gr bullet would not even reach 1,100 yards. The numbers are just not there to prove otherwise. It has been stated in the news by ex military people in the crowd. That the cadence and volume of the shots fired sounded more like a .308 belt fed weapon. First one that comes to mind is a M-60. So I think that telling everyone that he used an AR-15 has more political value than a belt fed .308. Which would be illegal anyway. Who ever was behind this was not out to just kill people. It was a move to, of course ban bumpfire stocks, but also fuel to try and ban evil looking fire arms. There was way too many guns in that room for one man to use. But yet they were AR-15's and they "all" had bumpfire stocks. yes it was reported that there was a shotgun and a couple of hand guns. It has been almost a month and I am still not buying the official story.
The FBI is covering up all kinds of stuff. What Las Vegas hotel/casino does not have every square foot, cover by cameras? That also means the service elevator? The kitchen of the restarurant, the maids area, hallways, fire exits. The only place in a hotel/casino that a camera was not be there, is when you take a dump in your room. That is for personal privacy but yet they still might even have a hidden one in a room somewhere. It would be safe to say that they even have cameras in the parking garage. But not one single frame of one mans movements. When they can use a camera to watch what cards are in your hand at a table, why not any video of a guy moving several large bags? Then we hear official FBI statements like, This man was so secretive we may never know why it happened. Here it is almost a month later, and I hear on the news that this man removed his hard drive from his computer and destroyed it. I will bet money that the FBI has or has destroyed the hard drive themselves to cover there butts on that angle. My nephew works on computers and removing a hard drive is not an easy thing to do.
So for all you sheep that believe what the media tells you, wake up. I am sure not buying it. The FBI has pulled all the strings from day one and in my opinion pulled strings before the shooting. The days after, the story was always changing. Then they made it a point that things change from day to day. There is just too many open holes in the story that the FBI keeps trying to plug up. Now there is not much said about what happened in hopes people will forget the facts. So all of a sudden we have a sex scandal in Hollywood.
my rant is done, thanx.

This type of response is why I have a hard time buying into the various theories people are throwing around. What I see are bold assertions by folks that say "it absolutely can't be this or that" or "I know for sure x and y must have happened" yet can provide nothing beyond personal experience/opinion to back it up, then get upset if someone doesn't immediately jump on board, finally insulting those that don't see it exactly the way they do. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't have a high likelihood of buying something someone is telling me if they begin and end their statement with some kind of insult.

I know you're responding to someone else, but since I'm in a similar camp, I wanted to take a moment to respond myself. First of all, I'm not personally buying anyone's story or taking anyone's bait. From the day this happened, I've been interested in seeing facts - what really happened. Yet, to date, almost everything I see is based on nothing more than speculation. When a few facts are presented, they are immediately shot down as being some big conspiracy, and anyone who believes them is a fool.

But let's take a look at one of your assertions, since it's the basis of one of your main arguments - he shot from over/about 1,100 yards, and there is no way a .223/5.56 can still be lethal at that range. The assumption here is the distance of the shot. I heard, in the news, somewhere from 350-450 yards, you mentioned seeing 1,100 yards. We can actually get a pretty conclusive answer to that question and do so without speculation. Google Maps allows you to easily measure the distance between 2 points. In this case, I ran the measurement from the corner of the building where he was located to about the middle of the concert venue. The result - 1,332 feet or 444 yards. But there is also elevation to consider. I did a quick Google search for the elevation of a 32nd floor room - a few variations, but 140' seemed about the average time of the typical elevation of a 32nd floor room. So to get the total distance, we can use the Pythagorean theorem: A squared + B squared = C squared. Call A our elevation of 140 feet and B our distance of 1,332 feet that leaves us solving for C (the hypotenuse), which is the total distance of the shot taking both linear distance and elevation. That gives us 19,600 + 1,768,900 = 1,788,500. Take the square root of that and you get your total shot distance of 1,337.34 feet or 445 yards. Now, I'm not expert, but I do understand that a .223/5.56 can easily still be lethal at that range. With that in mind, it should make it reasonable that an AR15 could have been the weapon used. Again, a quick Google search shows plenty of info indicating a lethal range of at least 600 yards for .223/5.56.

So if it's possible this was actually an AR, what about the rate of fire? I posted on another thread on the shooting just last week at least 3 videos from YT that showed a rate of fire that matched the one from the videos. I found this to be true whether they were AR15's or AR308/10's - the rate of fire is not fixed for bump stocks, it can range from 400 to 800 rounds per minute and easily match the same rate as the shots in the videos. This means that the sound of the shots can't conclusively prove what gun he did or didn't use. It doesn't eliminate one gun or another, just leaves the options open.

I return to the same question I've asked over and over on this site and have yet to receive a good, solid answer - who would stand to gain from setting up an attack like this? What would the CIA, FBI, DNC, RNC or anyone else have to gain? Some are saying this was an attempt to re-ignite the discussion on gun control - well, as we've seen from many other events, the political weight such events carry is very limited because people stop being bothered by it after about 2 weeks, which means if you can't capitalize on such an event in that time, you'll lose that emotional tide you need to make it happen. And in a congress lead by R's, with an R president, that was never going to happen - so it's a waste of time to even try and put such an attack together. The R's likely wouldn't have anything to gain either - they're, on the whole, not going to push for more gun control, and it was likely a lot of their voters that were at that concert - why attack your own? And what could the CIA or FBI possibly gain from setting something like this up? What possible value could there be for them? It makes no sense. Honestly, the thing that makes the most sense to me so far is that a f'ing moron decided to cause a lot of harm - and there are plenty of stories throughout history that show some people, thankfully few, that just want to cause death and destruction. I believe in evil, and I think this guy was evil. I also think he had the means to do everything we've been told he did, from getting guns into the hotel, to making the shots he made - none if it seems impossible to me.

Look, I get that people don't trust the government, or the media, I don't either. But trying to prove they are passing along a lie without good solid facts to refute them just isn't helping to prove there is some kind of conspiracy. I'm open to whatever comes along, but I do ask for some facts before I'm going to jump on board with any theory. But all things considered, sometimes these events are just what they seem to be - some evil person doing evil things and for no other reason than to fulfill or carry out some evil fantasy at the expense of the lives of others. Unfortunately, our world is populated with such people.

 

[EPS]

Looks like you took the official bait hook line and sinker. Yes it does matter what gun he used. NOBODY has ever discussed the fact the "if" it was 1 guy and "if" he used an AR-15 with a bump stock. And finally "if" he even pulled the trigger. He could not have possibly killed anyone at the distance he was shooting. NOBODY has discussed the ballistics of a .223 bullet. Here is why. From the official press release, the window to the concert venue was over 1,100 yards. That was stated on the news. If an AR-15 was used. We are talking an extremely light bullet. 55gr-62gr .22 caliber. Yes it has a muzzle velocity is 3,200 fps. For proper fragmentation, the killing potential, is under 600 yards. That has been published in US military documents that the bullet does not have much fragmentation farther than 600 yards. I have personally shot 1,000 yard rifle matches with the Washington Army National Guard. I was using a much heavier bullet to reach the target at that range. A 168gr, .308 caliber bullet. At that distance a 168gr, .308 bullet is slowing down in a hurry. To the point that the bullet starts to topple end for end and will leave an oval hole in the paper. I have seen this for myself. With that said, there is no way a bullet that weighs almost 3 times lighter is going to reach 1,100 yards and still have enough energy to even penetrate a thick coat. It would be safe to say that a 62gr bullet would not even reach 1,100 yards. The numbers are just not there to prove otherwise. It has been stated in the news by ex military people in the crowd. That the cadence and volume of the shots fired sounded more like a .308 belt fed weapon. First one that comes to mind is a M-60. So I think that telling everyone that he used an AR-15 has more political value than a belt fed .308. Which would be illegal anyway. Who ever was behind this was not out to just kill people. It was a move to, of course ban bumpfire stocks, but also fuel to try and ban evil looking fire arms. There was way too many guns in that room for one man to use. But yet they were AR-15's and they "all" had bumpfire stocks. yes it was reported that there was a shotgun and a couple of hand guns. It has been almost a month and I am still not buying the official story.
The FBI is covering up all kinds of stuff. What Las Vegas hotel/casino does not have every square foot, cover by cameras? That also means the service elevator? The kitchen of the restarurant, the maids area, hallways, fire exits. The only place in a hotel/casino that a camera was not be there, is when you take a dump in your room. That is for personal privacy but yet they still might even have a hidden one in a room somewhere. It would be safe to say that they even have cameras in the parking garage. But not one single frame of one mans movements. When they can use a camera to watch what cards are in your hand at a table, why not any video of a guy moving several large bags? Then we hear official FBI statements like, This man was so secretive we may never know why it happened. Here it is almost a month later, and I hear on the news that this man removed his hard drive from his computer and destroyed it. I will bet money that the FBI has or has destroyed the hard drive themselves to cover there butts on that angle. My nephew works on computers and removing a hard drive is not an easy thing to do.
So for all you sheep that believe what the media tells you, wake up. I am sure not buying it. The FBI has pulled all the strings from day one and in my opinion pulled strings before the shooting. The days after, the story was always changing. Then they made it a point that things change from day to day. There is just too many open holes in the story that the FBI keeps trying to plug up. Now there is not much said about what happened in hopes people will forget the facts. So all of a sudden we have a sex scandal in Hollywood.
my rant is done, thanx.

It was only a 400 yards some media is reporting 1000 feet and people are confusing the feet and yard 's and my point was he was crazy and wanted to kill people he could have done it with a car or truck or one of his airplanes