BULLIED BY FORESTRY SERVICE NEAR METOLIUS

[oli700]

On the second visit one of the the ODF agents asked if there were any firearms out, which I replied yes there are two rifles on the bench unloaded and clear. The female ODF agent commented "it's cheaper if you don't shoot at all".

There is no such thing as an ODF LEO......No ODF employees carry firearms. ODF enforces forest law/fire law on private and BLM land only.....and it is all done by either stewardship foresters or firefighter
Oregon Department of Forestry, main priority is fire, fire law, logging and logging law. If a person with a firearm is needed to help enforce law it's a sheriff, state police or BLM LEO

US Forest Service, every law....all encompassing on their land. They have their own armed LEO's. They can and will even ticket you for speeding on any USFS road system including state and county roads passing through national forest

BLM, all encompassing laws on BLM land, they have their own armed LEO's


.....get a clue if your going to tell tall tales

 

[RB87]

Can someone get me a flowchart on LEO/Gov agent authority and an agent uniform identification chart? It seems to be growing like weeds.

 

[bobu]

There is no such thing as an ODF LEO......No ODF employees carry firearms. ODF enforces forest law/fire law on private and BLM land only.....and it is all done by either stewardship foresters or firefighter
Oregon Department of Forestry, main priority is fire, fire law, logging and logging law. If a person with a firearm is needed to help enforce law it's a sheriff, state police or BLM LEO

US Forest Service, every law....all encompassing on their land. They have their own armed LEO's. They can and will even ticket you for speeding on any USFS road system including state and county roads passing through national forest

BLM, all encompassing laws on BLM land, they have their own armed LEO's


.....get a clue if your going to tell tall tales

So a uniformed person in a greeen truck marked Oregon Department of Forestry, with a side arm, marked law enforcement is not an ODF LEO? huh apparently I am clueless because Ican't make sense of that one. As for tall tales, I am sure I could come up with some if you'd like. I'm just trying to share what we came up against and get input on how to deal with it comes up again. Thanks for your rant though no thread is complete without one.

 

[Modeler]

So a uniformed person in a greeen truck marked Oregon Department of Forestry, with a side arm, marked law enforcement is not an ODF LEO? huh apparently I am clueless because Ican't make sense of that one. As for tall tales, I am sure I could come up with some if you'd like. I'm just trying to share what we came up against and get input on how to deal with it comes up again. Thanks for your rant though no thread is complete without one.

ODF Trucks are white. ODF doesn't have LEO's.

Forest Service trucks are green. Forest Service has LEO's.

There's a difference.

 

[pchewn]

Right. It appears that there is confusion about OREGON Dept of Forestry and US Forest Service. One is for our Oregon state forests, the other for the National Forests. One has some armed LEO's, the other doesn't. One drives green trucks, one drives white.

Clear as a bell now?

 

[oli700]

So the OP is clueless and a liar? Well aren't you just a sweetheart.

Yeah that's right, apparently you're clueless as well and don't mind false accusations and storytelling.....more power to you. As far as being a sweetheart why should I be ?....

How about this.....cool story dude, fight the power man !.......we feel for you getting bullied by the ODF woman with a gun lol.......poor city folks

I did not see their vehicles were marked "Law Enforcement" but they they did have side arms.

So a uniformed person in a greeen truck marked Oregon Department of Forestry, with a side arm, marked law enforcement is not an ODF LEO? huh apparently I am clueless

So which one is it ?

 

[downtown]

There is no reason to storm in here like a jerk with that crap. Whether he properly identified the specific agencies that the officers work for or not is not that big a deal. It can be hard to tell who is who in those areas. That certainly is understandable and doesn't make th incident untrue. It is not hard to believe that this took place either. The national forestry land management people are not very friendly and not very helpful. I camp on BLM land out of Bend all summer. We go out and target shoot a fair amount and try to be careful and to do it right. A lot of people out target shooting in the area have bad contacts with the LE for BLM. To try to avoid that and to try to make things easier i contacted the Bend BLM Office and asked if there were areas that they preferred us not to shoot in and what precautions I cold take to make things easier for them. They were not at all helpful, in fact they made it as hard as they could for me to get any help. They were fine until he word firearms comes up and then thy get crappy. I got the number for the LE people and got the same "I'm not going to answer firearms questions" from the lady there. Finally said that she would have an officer call me back. No call back. Called again, left number, no call back. And this with someone trying to get info to make it better. They refused to even tell me where you can legally shoot and what areas were prohibited. This is why it is so hard to have any confidence in government.

Yeah that's right, apparently you're clueless as well and don't mind false accusations and storytelling.....more power to you. As far as being a sweetheart why should I be ?....

How about this.....cool story dude, fight the power man !.......we feel for you getting bullied by the ODF woman with a gun lol.......poor city folks






So which one is it ?

 

[bobu]

Right. It appears that there is confusion about OREGON Dept of Forestry and US Forest Service. One is for our Oregon state forests, the other for the National Forests. One has some armed LEO's, the other doesn't. One drives green trucks, one drives white.

Clear as a bell now?

Thank you, I was not aware of the difference. It was a two green trucks with people that got out with guns on their hips. From the actual constructive input here it now appears that they were US forest service law enforcement. None wewre 100% sure of the rules at the time and for that reason we complied, I would like to be sure that I am better prepared in the future. Not real sure about oli700's motivation?

 

[oli700]

IMO you were out of line in your treatment of a fellow forum member with your posts and owe him an apology. I leave to you to show this forum what kind of man you are, one that can admit when he is perhaps mistaken and can own up to or….

I’m sorry for ignorant people
I’m sorry for bad information
I’m sorry for people who whine
I’m sorry everyone has to be so PC and touchy feely now
I’m sorry for people who defend uninformed , slander spreading , whining people who come on the internet to spread wrong information looking for sympathy, giving innocent folks a bad name so the next time someone who encounters said folks have already judged them as a bunch of Aholes because they read this gigantic failure of a thread
Sorry….sorry, What pisses me off further is the sheer ignorance of my statesmen and fellow forum members as you put it….”Oregonians” ….and I should apologize, get bent pal, learn something about your state outside of city limits…sorry just at the end of my rope with this sort of behavior, last place I need to be is the internet no doubt.....carry on fluffing eachothers ego's

 

[downtown]

Man, who crapped in your wheaties? You gotta be a real drag to be around.


And I'm sorry for people like you. What a jerk, but at least I don't have to live around you.

Now to go find an ignore button somewhere.

I'm sorry for ignorant people
I'm sorry for bad information
I'm sorry for people who whine
I'm sorry everyone has to be so PC and touchy feely now
I'm sorry for people who defend uninformed , slander spreading , whining people who come on the internet to spread wrong information looking for sympathy, giving innocent folks a bad name so the next time someone who encounters said folks have already judged them as a bunch of Aholes because they read this gigantic failure of a thread
Sorry....sorry, What pisses me off further is the sheer ignorance of my statesmen and fellow forum members as you put it...."Oregonians" ....and I should apologize, get bent pal, learn something about your state outside of city limits...sorry just at the end of my rope with this sort of behavior, last place I need to be is the internet no doubt.....carry on fluffing eachothers ego's

 

[Liberty]

...

 

[downtown]

Great idea, he should publish it or provide links for the rest of us. I think the VIDEO idea is good too. Didn't realize the SCOTUS had blessed the circuit court ruling making it legal for anyone to video/audio record a LEO in the performance of their duty. Also getting LEO ID's / info is good. The best idea I've heard so far is knowing the laws associated with firearms (having a printed copy is pretty cool too).

Yea, I agree. Maybe the best thing for this thread would be for people to put that info on here so we can copy it.

 

[Liberty]

...

 

[pdx210]

LEO's interactions

- know your rights, everyone wants to be friendly and respectful to LEO’s who doesn't but your first mistake was engaging in conversation with the LEO’s.

-Because everything you say and I mean everything from the second you start talking is referred to as willful interrogation and its all admissible in court. Also, a police officer can lie to you and make stuff up in the course of this conversation.

-When an officer talks to you, asks questions you should assume he/she is fishing for information this willful interrogation and it’s the is the basis for many criminal charges building reasonable suspicion of law violations based on your own comment’s to incriminate yourself. You are not obligated to answer any questions form LEO’s and you shouldn't!


- It’s not uncommon for people to be threatened with or even get tickets for things that are not legal offenses.



I tend to think you were not breaking the law. Law enforcement is infraction revenue driven if they could have hit you with 700.00 tickets each they would have

 

[Bill Siegle]

My question is why did this situation require two interactions with law enforcement? I would assume only one call (if any) went out so why couldn't the first responding unit contact the second and say its taken care of? Seems like a waste of resources. I have dealt with Sheriffs in the woods and Forest Service folks and had ok experiences but I have always been a little hesitant in answering questions or interacting with them. To me it's just not worth the possible trouble they can start via me volunteering the wrong information. I don't have anything to hide but I am not volunteering anything either. Only once did I have a bad scene with a Forest Service guy and that was because he was creeping around my camp in the wee hours and looked in my truck where I was sleeping. All I could see was a man sized shadow peering in as it was maybe 4am. I spot lighted him and backed him off from as defensible a position as I could get till he identified himself. He started to get rude about it till I told him to get me a Sheriff before continuing. He calmed down and started politely asking me questions about my camp. I wouldn't answer him and I kept asking for a Sheriff. He finally said something about this going no where and left. my theory is be polite but don't give an inch. When I am in the woods, it's not because I wanted to interact with strangers. Leave me alone.

 

[bobu]

I'd be interested in the details of this reference.

I too would be interested in this. The biggest thing that I really had a problem with is the fact that forest service people could issue a citation even if it the knew it was bogus. The first Black Butte, and Deschutes Co. Officers told us on the first visit "you guys are not doing anything illegal here but doesn't stop people from calling in complaints". They did tell us at that time that forest service would also likely be coming by to check us out. The Black Butte officer that came back with them later was obviously not pleased with them.

 

[jimwsea]

My question is why did this situation require two interactions with law enforcement? I would assume only one call (if any) went out so why couldn't the first responding unit contact the second and say its taken care of?

Job security?

 

[downtown]

This is confusing. The area of concern for me is the area behind Mt. Bachelor, around the lakes on the Cascade Lakes Hwy. that is USFS land and they patrol it. BLM and ODF do not, apparently. So, the first thing to do is to find out whose jurisdiction the land falls under. While that shouldn't be hard, it is. That makes no sense to me why we have to have two separate federal agencies and a State agency to essentially do the same thing, but with different standards and rules that are not always the same. But that is what it is. So I called the supervisor of the Law Enforcement officers for that area of USFS and just asked him what was up. They do have LE officers patrol in green and white SUV's. those are his officers. There are also green and white vehicles out there that have light bars on them that are driven by civilian volunteers. Their main job is to watch for fire safety, not to be cops, but he does see them get a tad over zealous sometimes and generate citizen complaints. As far as the op, he has no female LE Officers in the zone anywhere, so if the original issue was with USFS, then it had to be a volunteer, not a LE officer. He was very open and very helpful. He said that the USFS welcomes target shooting. The rules are that you can not shoot w/I 1/4 mile of a road or of an occupied campsite. You can not shoot on or across a road or a river (unless duck hunting). Other than that use common sense. Don't leave garbage or damage anything. There are a few no shooting areas, due to congestion of people. He mentioned one off of China Hat Rd., just out of Bend, and the area right around the Lava Caves Visitor Area. Again, he was very helpful, very open and very open to target shooting in the area.

 

[lcb97269]

Practice safety until someone unsafe approaches. Then it is a judgement call.

 

[1stklass]

Turn the video camera(s)on and hand them a card for your attorney. Keep a smile, dont get ruffled and be respectful... They probably wont stick around very long. The Video Cameras can be had for under 100 bucks and is cheap insurance