Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

Body Armor Question

Discussion in 'Gear & Accessories' started by RedneckRampage, Nov 13, 2013.

  1. RedneckRampage

    RedneckRampage Newberg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,755
    Likes Received:
    401
    So, been thinking about buying some body armor, just for the hell of it. I see that the plates, combined with the soft armor in a carrier can stop some pretty heavy 7.62 hits. I don't want a soft plate carrier with armor, I am thinking more of a plate carrier, just for plates, then a concealable IIIA vest that I could wear under the plate carrier if I wanted. Would this be as "bullet proof" as the carrier with built in soft armor?
     
  2. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    984
    all body armor is only "Bullet Resistant". A body armor that will stop 7.62 rifle ammo will be exceedingly heavy. A IIIa vest is only rated for handgun ammo, adding plates may help or even stop a rifle round. But, it is going to still cause you, most likely,to be seriously hurt.
     
    simon99 and (deleted member) like this.
  3. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    5,764
    You could pair AR500 plates with soft armor over it?
    Perhaps use rubber pads and rhino liner as an extra line of anti spawling material and use soft armor over that?
     
    simon99 and (deleted member) like this.
  4. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    3A with lighter trauma plates are also rated up to 30 carbine and buckshot, and some for factory slugs. I have that (for the street) as well as the full level 4 armor with rifle inserts, and it is HEAVY, as in I would only wear it as a fixed position defender. These are the plate inserts I have:

    http://www.bulletproofme.com/RP-E-SAPI.html

    This is a good place to buy, great customer service but you need to call them

    BulletProofME.com Body Armor / Bullet proof Vests

    If you want street soft armor, get at least a front groin panel and wear a cup (ouch? :p )
     
    erudne and (deleted member) like this.
  5. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    984
    the energy has to go somewhere, you can't make it "go away".

    Get a buddy, and a bag of portland cement, lie down on the ground next to your house. Have your buddy climb on the roof and drop the bag of portland cement on your chest.

    Something like that, body armor is your last line of defense, if someone is shooting at you with a rifle (or handgun) find something big and thick to get behind. If your armor gets hit it is going to hurt, a lot.

    Look at ballistic charts and the amount of energy, in foot pounds, a round has. Even if you stop the projectile all that force is still focused on the point of impact, plates may spread it out a bit, but not much. Still enough energy to crack your half inch thick ribs and rupture organs.

    The saving grace with body armor is you may have enough time to get to a hospital.

    I'm not trying to discourage you from buying armor, after all it's your money. Just trying to be realistic. by no means are you going to be able to "stand up" to repeated hits with a rifle (or even one). That falls into the realm of "Movie bullbubblegum".

    BTW I sold and fitted body armor for a number of years to leo's and civilians, was thorougly trained by ABA and Safariland.
     
  6. redhippie

    redhippie People's republic of PDX Active Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    35
    Side Plates?

    I'm buying some IIIA plates and carrier to wear while I'll up in logland runing and gunning. Purpose is to have little bit of insurance in-case I run into the wrong type or, more likely, I trip.

    I've put in the initial investment for the back and front. Do you think side plates are worth it for my philosophy of use?

    Any thoughts?

    Cheers
     
  7. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

    Messages:
    4,653
    Likes Received:
    5,764
    I dont see why not. AR500 side plates would and could accomplish that. And aid in weight training.. And if you find you dont enjoy them you just purchased two nice little targets :)

    I do the same thing once or twice a month with my steel plates (I know I know) and my plate carrier. Most folks dont realize how cumbersome chest rigs are, even without plates when entering a vehicle and doing drills. It sucks, But its a blast.

    Yes, mall ninja tacticool.. But at least Ill be ready for the fight if ever it should come.
    Folks also balk at the idea of me toting aroung a get home bag, long arm and side arm everywhere I go.. But again, I just do it because I take comfort in being prepared.

    So yeah, go for it!
    I forwent the side plates because my torso and body size dont justify the smaller peices of metal, unless they made them a tad longer.

    COOP44 is right though.. If ever you do need and utilize plates.. Lets hope logistics and medical aid are still available! Otherwise we're all pooched.
     
  8. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    Correct me if I'm wrong but the amount of energy imparted to the target cannot be more than the recoil felt by the shooter. This is why the "flying 10 feet" after being hit by a shotgun is bogus
     
  9. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,052
    Likes Received:
    970
    That's true. There's ways to disperse force out the sides through muzzle breaks, etc. but there has to be an equal, opposite transfer of force most of which is recoil.
     
  10. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    984
    blitz you are a nice guy, but think about it a bit. does your gun move rearward at 2000 feet per second? No, the weight of the gun stops it from doing that. The explosion of powder is pushing a 4 to 8 pound rifle one way and a 150-180 grain slug the other way. velocity is a component of calculating energy. Somebody out there with a better knowledge of physics and algebra will have to chime in on this.
     
  11. redhippie

    redhippie People's republic of PDX Active Member

    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    35
    Coop44 sounds right.

    Basically you are accelerating two objects. The bullet in the direction of travel and the rife in the reverse. Energy in the system is conserved, so it has to go somewhere.

    Now what would be interesting would be the amount of kinetic energy that is transformed into mechanical and potential energy in the cycling and inner workings of the gun. I suspect there is also the ability to dispense the recoil impulse over a longer period of time. I would think a gas or piston driven weapon is robbing from both forward and rearward energy equally to cycle the weapon. With an automatic handgun, I would think that it is just the rearward recoil energy to cycle the gun.

    Finally, there is the question of striking surface area. On the shooter side, you have 12 square inches of surface area vs the striking surface area of the bullet. The duration of the impulse would also matter here where the bullet would be almost instantaneous and the rifle/handgun a fraction of a second.

    Fascinating. Any one know of a text that breaks all this down into physics terms? Its bee a few years since Physics III.

    Cheers
     
  12. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    984
    heck I never even made it to physics 1
     
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
  14. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    984
    hey Blitz, if you believe all that BS, are you willing to volunteer for an experiment? We'll tape a 2"x6" steel plate to your shoulder, I'll shoot it with a 300WM, you shouldn't feel any more recoil than I do, right?

    not everything is true because you see it on the internet.


    (Let me get your posthumous Darwin award ready)
     
  15. simon99

    simon99 Central Oregon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,673
    Likes Received:
    1,673
    I'm no scientist, but I've worn a lot of armor in my day and I have to say it sucks. I don't know why civilians are in to it.....you're still very vulnerable.
     
  16. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,606
    Likes Received:
    984
    exactly, why I prefer ducking behind something
     
    1stIDFMP and (deleted member) like this.
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    I figure the FBI report was good enough for me. Some may have missed it

    http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

    I hate wearing even 3A armor but a few times it was quite a comfort. A bad bruise beats a hole through your liver
     
  18. DMcGPNW

    DMcGPNW SW WA Member

    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    78
    Here is a meandering train of thought response. The armor question has been floating around lately. I'll admit the idea of additional protection seems appealing. There is a trade off on weight and mobility. For day to day protection it seems a concealable 3a set up should address most mugger/thug encounter needs. A class 3 rifle plate could be useful if you engage in some dynamic carbine shooting with a group. In a SHTF scenario I've wondered about the utility. Armor does increase the odds of survival but medical attention will be needed generally and if there are no services where do you go? Additionally, would armor engender a sense invulnerability that would lead to bad decisions in a survival scenario? Ultimately it is personal decision. I still like the idea of a little extra protection so long as balanced a thoroughly integrated into your needs.
     
  19. BillM

    BillM Amity OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    498
  20. ComradAR15

    ComradAR15 Clackamas Member

    Messages:
    44
    Likes Received:
    18
    I have some experience in body armor. I've shot this particular vest it is a Level 3A soft armor and Level 4 Esapi plates. Ammo used 5.56 M855 5rounds, 9mm 20rd, .45ACP 20rd, 7.62x39 Mild steel core 3 rounds, 7.62x39 SP 123gr 3 rounds, and 7.62x39 FMJ 124gr 5 rounds. All rounds were stopped. The Last Rifle we used was a 30-30 the vest had extensive damage to the plates at the time last 3 round of 30-30 penetrated.
    I also shot just the Level 3A part. 9mm 124gr .45ACP and .357Magnum. All rounds stopped.
    View attachment 73552

    Vests are designed for you to stay in the fight. The multiple hits body receives will not kill you but it will create a lot of bruising. Don't ask me how I know this.
    My recommendation to never buy just AR500 plates. The energy behind the round will hit that metal plate and it will still want to go somewhere. Also the fragment possibility will probably kill you if the round hits the metal plate at a specific angle.

    There is a reason why the military used ceramic and composite materials to prevent shrapnel injuries and have that energy disbursed all over the plate. The plates are designed to receive multiple hits.

    Semper Fi.

    View attachment 73553