Behold, the Mantis Mk4

[ilikegunspdx]

Not from what I have seen with the most competitive shooters in the sport.

Which matches do you attend? I love to see your rig work when you get it going. I shoot at Douglas ridge quite a bit we have a monthly 22 match you should bring it out.


Just curious if you see the brace still preferable when you include the legal issues? It will probably get overturned but for now it seems less than an ideal solution given the time to sbr and the stamp.

Yes legal issues re braces are a huge unknown. At the moment Goa, FPC, and SAF members are supposedly currently excluded from enforcement of the brace rule. Who knows how that works in the real world. For the buckmark gun above it's a sbr that's why I was thinking I might throw a front vertical grip on it just for giggles. I probably have an adapter around somewhere. I think the Wilson combat grip shown on the Glock comes in at less than 2 oz so the adapter is likely heavier than the grip which is a little silly but for just playing around it's fine I think.

 

[zomie]

Yes legal issues re braces are a huge unknown. At the moment Goa, FPC, and SAF are supposedly enjoined from the brace rules. Who knows how that works in the real world. For the buckmark gun above it's a sbr that's why I was thinking I might throw a front vertical grip on it just for giggles. I probably have an adapter around somewhere. I think the Wilson combat grip shown on the Glock comes in at less than 2 oz so the adapter is likely heavier than the grip.

I hope they figure out the legal issues soon. The frame and receiver piece is scary given who the supreme court sided with and I hope it isn't a trend.

Well if you get it together you should bring it out. If you haven't been to one of the matches feel free to pm and we can get on the same squad give you an overview. It looks like you got some fun gear to try out

 

[Pepe-lepew]

They already addressed the legal issues. In their specs they note pin and weld shroud to the Ruger upper for a barrel length of 16.25". They are permanently making the pistol upper have a rifle length barrel. With that you can use it with or without a stock and put any type of rifle stock on it. Remember, that was one of the ATF's solutions to having a brace on a pistol, put a 16"+ barrel on it.

All these new ATF rules with no authority are working. Gun owners are afraid of being out of compliance. Just where the government wants you.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

They already addressed the legal issues. In their specs they note pin and weld shroud to the Ruger upper for a barrel length of 16.25". They are permanently making the pistol upper have a rifle length barrel. With that you can use it with or without a stock and put any type of rifle stock on it. Remember, that was one of the ATF's solutions to having a brace on a pistol, put a 16"+ barrel on it.

All these new ATF rules with no authority are working. Gun owners are afraid of being out of compliance. Just where the government wants you.

What in the world? So it has a pistol length barrel, but they weld a gigantic shroud onto it? For what purpose? Unless it's a built in suppressor to me that's completely nuts just to reach 16".

If someone wanted a true 16" barrel for increased velocity (ie likely better long range accuracy) then sure I get it. Or a very long (for large volume) suppressor, I get that. But to cludge a bunch of fancy looking stuff onto it to meet atf requirements? That seems like a waste to me. Better to have used the free brace rule signup than you can literally put anything you want on it, vertical foregrip, stock, any size barrel, whatever. Or if a person missed the free window then a $200 stamp allows the same. Or if don't want an nfa item just use a 16" barrel (not very handy Imo compared to shorter options but does give higher velocity so it's personal preference) or like others said above just buy a 16" rifle.

 

[zomie]

What in the world? So it has a pistol length barrel, but they weld a gigantic shroud onto it? For what purpose? Unless it's a built in suppressor to me that's completely nuts just to reach 16".

If someone wanted a true 16" barrel for increased velocity (ie likely better long range accuracy) then sure I get it. Or a very long (for large volume) suppressor, I get that. But to cludge a bunch of fancy looking stuff onto it to meet atf requirements? That seems like a waste to me. Better to have used the free brace rule signup than you can literally put anything you want on it, vertical foregrip, stock, any size barrel, whatever. Or if a person missed the free window then a $200 stamp allows the same. Or if don't want an nfa item just use a 16" barrel (not very handy Imo compared to shorter options but does give higher velocity so it's personal preference).

Dude come to the range and show what ya can do. Let's see that brace work since your confidence is so high!

Increased barrel length does nothing for accuracy. The more chances for rifling flaws can actually hurt it post stabilization. These barrels with shrouds are very common in this sport and others. Many 9mm barrels are done like this for similar reasons. You could make some argument with the bullet going subsonic sooner but with sports sub 50 yards it plays no part.

It doesn't seem like you shoot the sports this was intended for so your opinion feels fairly uneducated. You should demonstrate it since you feel so strongly about this.

 

[Pepe-lepew]

It is purpose built for a competition. The shroud does several things. It provides length for use as a hand guard. You actually can gain speed by outstretching you arm some, similar to the method 3 gunners use. It keeps the barrel short so you don't have barrel mass to swing between targets. By simply pinning it to the barrel, it allows use of any stock on what was originally a pistol action. This also eliminates a tax stamp and the interstate travel restrictions that come with a tax stamp.

For those that don't shoot speed steel type competitions, it is useless. Like top fuel dragsters are useless as a car.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Dude come to the range and show what ya can do. Let's see that brace work since your confidence is so high!

Increased barrel length does nothing for accuracy. The more chances for rifling flaws can actually hurt it post stabilization. These barrels with shrouds are very common in this sport and others. Many 9mm barrels are done like this for similar reasons. You could make some argument with the bullet going subsonic sooner but with sports sub 50 yards it plays no part.

It doesn't seem like you shoot the sports this was intended for so your opinion feels fairly uneducated. You should demonstrate it since you feel so strongly about this.

I said long range accuracy. Velocity definitely affects drop at longer ranges.

 

[zomie]

I said long range accuracy. Velocity definitely affects drop at longer ranges.

Lol at this point I am going to write this off as you ar clearly trolling for fun. It is purpose built for a sport where the distance of the targets means that isn't an issue. This isn't a hunting rifle.

I hope to see ya at the range my friend.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Lol at this point I am going to write this off as you ar clearly trolling for fun. It is purpose built for a sport where the distance of the targets means that isn't an issue. This isn't a hunting rifle.

I hope to see ya at the range my friend.

You said, "increased barrel length does nothing for accuracy". I was responding to that statement.

Also I can't think of anything in the world less important to me than "show us what you can do". Not dissing competition, as it's a great way to improve, but I could care less about others opinions unless it's someone like Seeklander, Leatham, or similar.

 

[zomie]

Also I can't think of anything in the world less important to me than "show us what you can do".

But testing head to head is always the best way to compare imo

I was just going off of your earlier quote. I wasn't so much of show me what you can do as going off of your request to see how your creation did in the sport. On that website it was clear the Mantis is winning local competitions. I was just calling out your request so we can do that comparison with times.

I really would love to see you come out, have some fun, we have BBQ. I have never seen a forward vertical grip used, brace or suppressor setup be successful or even attempted. It would be great for you to bring some innovation and show us. You can bring the gun and let one of the rockstars shoot it and give their feedback if you don't feel confident in your own skillset.

There internet keyboard commando brings out the worst in everyone. Come meet some new friends, enjoy yourself, share your innovation and ideas It is what these sports are about. Worst case my friend is that we both get an education on different sides right?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I was just going off of your earlier quote. I wasn't so much of show me what you can do as going off of your request to see how your creation did in the sport. On that website it was clear the Mantis is winning local competitions. I was just calling out your request so we can do that comparison with times.

I really would love to see you come out, have some fun, we have BBQ. I have never seen a forward vertical grip used, brace or suppressor setup be successful or even attempted. It would be great for you to bring some innovation and show us. You can bring the gun and let one of the rockstars shoot it and give their feedback if you don't feel confident in your own skillset.

There internet keyboard commando brings out the worst in everyone. Come meet some new friends, enjoy yourself, share your innovation and ideas It is what these sports are about. Worst case my friend is that we both get an education on different sides right?

I made no such request. Like the comment about velocity, you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

 

[zomie]

I made no such request. Like the comment about velocity, you are putting words in my mouth that I did not say.

You said comparing was the best way and I agree.

Here is the information regarding a few upcoming matches in the area with friendly folks. Most of these matches if you just show up a group will take you under their wing. Given your interests I believe you would have a wonderful time.

Home | PractiScore

practiscore.com

Home | PractiScore

practiscore.com

I think TriCounty and Albany also offer similar matches if you are a member or have friends there.

 

[spookshack]

I think TriCounty and Albany also offer similar matches if you are a member or have friends there.

They do and non members are welcome (membership is not required).

 

[Lazyfaire]

$1000?? Is it made out of gold lol? Ouch! Why not just buy a rimfire rifle (or two) for that price? I genuinely don't see a need for it, but maybe others do.

$1000 + you supply a new Ruger Mark IV pistol.....plus if there is a suppressor involved.......$$$

 

[spookshack]

Here are some popular pin and weld 9mm AR barrels.

Super Feed 16″ XLW Barrel AR15-9mm | Taccom3g

Our own ramped style 9mm barrel; giving you a lighter feeling gun.

taccom3g.com

JP Rifles

9mm | 16'' Super Lite Barrel | Shop Now

The ODIN Works Super Lite 9mm PCC barrels are the best 'high speed, low drag' barrels you will find on the market. Made in Boise, ID from 416 stainless and 6061 aluminum, these barrels look and shoot great.

www.odinworks.com

For AR/PCC, 15oz LLW Barrel, 9mm, w/Cerakote Graphite Black Matte Finish

Wiland USA is a small manufacturing operation producing cutting edge components for action-shooting competitors. Our ludicrously-light-weight barrels are among the lightest available and our chassis has lots of adjustability so you can get the best possible fit.

wilandusa.com

 

[spookshack]

$1000 + you supply a new Ruger Mark IV pistol.....plus if there is a suppressor involved.......$$$

Once again, it's a pin and weld barrel. There is no suppressor involved. As the Mantis was strictly developed for competition, it was designed to mate up with a Ruger Mk4 lower. The Ruger Mk4 is the most popular of the .22 pistols for competition and many folks already own one. Thus, it was the most logical vehicle for bringing the Mantis to market….

Now this is $$$

Black Mamba, 6", Target Sights, Single Port Comp, Black Anodized Aluminum | Volquartsen Firearms

volquartsen.com

Lightweight | Volquartsen Firearms

volquartsen.com

 

[YippeeKiYoRed]

Very interesting. I've owned several Ruger 22 pistols and 10/22s. My experience is the pistols are more reliable. I've sometimes wished Ruger would build a rifle based on the Mark IV pistol.

 

[YippeeKiYoRed]

This is why car dealers generally don't put race cars in their showrooms. "How am I supposed to get in if the door doesn't open? Where are the windshield wipers? No passenger seat? This brand sucks. Come on Honey, lets go someplace else."

 

[Siglvr]

I appreciate learning new things, and that looks super new I'm not a competitor and it's out of my price range anyway, but I certainly see the attraction and it's darned interesting. Spookshack, thanks for sharing it.

 

[spookshack]

It's my understanding that the Mantis will be making and appearance at the ARPC speed steel match this Sunday. For those that will be there, it can be found in squad 1. So pop in and get properly introduced to the Mantis Mk4 and let us know what you think.