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Bank demands proof what money to be used for before withdrawal.
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Watch for the increasing capital controls in 2014.
Peter
Peter
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And so it begins
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BBC News - HSBC imposes restrictions on large cash withdrawals
Some HSBC customers have been prevented from withdrawing large amounts of cash because they could not provide evidence of why they wanted it, the BBC has learnt.
Listeners have told Radio 4's Money Box they were stopped from withdrawing amounts ranging from £5,000 to £10,000.
HSBC admitted it has not informed customers of the change in policy, which was implemented in November.
The bank says it has now changed its guidance to staff.
New rules
Stephen Cotton went to his local HSBC branch this month to withdraw £7,000 from his instant access savings account to pay back a loan from his mother.
A year before, he had withdrawn a larger sum in cash from HSBC without a problem.
But this time it was different, as he told Money Box: "When we presented them with the withdrawal slip, they declined to give us the money because we could not provide them with a satisfactory explanation for what the money was for. They wanted a letter from the person involved."
Mr Cotton says the staff refused to tell him how much he could have: "So I wrote out a few slips. I said, 'Can I have £5,000?' They said no. I said, 'Can I have £4,000?' They said no. And then I wrote one out for £3,000 and they said, 'OK, we'll give you that.' "
He asked if he could return later that day to withdraw another £3,000, but he was told he could not do the same thing twice in one day.
Continue reading the main story
"Start Quote
As this was not a change to the Terms and Conditions of your bank account we had no need to pre-notify customers of the change"
HSBC customer letter
He wrote to complain to HSBC about the new rules and also that he had not been informed of any change.
The bank said it did not have to tell him. "As this was not a change to the Terms and Conditions of your bank account, we had no need to pre-notify customers of the change," HSBC wrote.
Frustrated customers
Mr Cotton cannot understand HSBC's attitude: "I've been banking in that bank for 28 years. They all know me in there. You shouldn't have to explain to your bank why you want that money. It's not theirs, it's yours."
Peter from Wiltshire, who wanted his surname withheld, had a similar experience.
He wanted to take out £10 000 cash from HSBC, some to pay to his sons and some to fund his long-haul travel plans.
Peter phoned up the day before to give HSBC notice and everything seemed to be fine.
The next day he got a call from his local branch asking him to pay his sons via a bank payment and to provide booking receipts for his holidays. Peter did not have any booking receipts to show.
The following day he spoke to HSBC again and this time, having examined his account, it said he could withdraw the £10,000.
Belinda Bell is another customer who was initially denied her cash, in her case to pay her builder. She told Money Box she had to provide the builder's quote.
Customer protection
HSBC has said that following customer feedback, it was changing its policy: "We ask our customers about the purpose of large cash withdrawals when they are unusual and out of keeping with the normal running of their account. Since last November, in some instances we may have also asked these customers to show us evidence of what the cash is required for."
"The reason being we have an obligation to protect our customers, and to minimise the opportunity for financial crime. However, following feedback, we are immediately updating guidance to our customer facing staff to reiterate that it is not mandatory for customers to provide documentary evidence for large cash withdrawals, and on its own, failure to show evidence is not a reason to refuse a withdrawal. We are writing to apologise to any customer who has been given incorrect information and inconvenienced."
Continue reading the main story
"Start Quote
In a sense your money becomes pocket money and the bank becomes your parent"
Douglas Carswell MP for Clacton
Money Box asked other banks what their policy is on large cash withdrawals.
They all said they reserved the right to ask questions about large cash withdrawals.
But none of them said they would require evidence of what the money was being used for before paying out.
Douglas Carswell, the Conservative MP for Clacton, is alarmed by the new HSBC policy: "All these regulations which have been imposed on banks allow enormous interpretation. It basically infantilises the customer. In a sense your money becomes pocket money and the bank becomes your parent."
But Eric Leenders, head of retail at the British Bankers Association, said banks were sensible to ask questions of their customers: "I can understand it's frustrating for customers. But if you are making the occasional large cash withdrawal, the bank wants to make sure it's the right way to make the payment."
Some HSBC customers have been prevented from withdrawing large amounts of cash because they could not provide evidence of why they wanted it, the BBC has learnt.
Listeners have told Radio 4's Money Box they were stopped from withdrawing amounts ranging from £5,000 to £10,000.
HSBC admitted it has not informed customers of the change in policy, which was implemented in November.
The bank says it has now changed its guidance to staff.
New rules
Stephen Cotton went to his local HSBC branch this month to withdraw £7,000 from his instant access savings account to pay back a loan from his mother.
A year before, he had withdrawn a larger sum in cash from HSBC without a problem.
But this time it was different, as he told Money Box: "When we presented them with the withdrawal slip, they declined to give us the money because we could not provide them with a satisfactory explanation for what the money was for. They wanted a letter from the person involved."
Mr Cotton says the staff refused to tell him how much he could have: "So I wrote out a few slips. I said, 'Can I have £5,000?' They said no. I said, 'Can I have £4,000?' They said no. And then I wrote one out for £3,000 and they said, 'OK, we'll give you that.' "
He asked if he could return later that day to withdraw another £3,000, but he was told he could not do the same thing twice in one day.
Continue reading the main story
"Start Quote
As this was not a change to the Terms and Conditions of your bank account we had no need to pre-notify customers of the change"
HSBC customer letter
He wrote to complain to HSBC about the new rules and also that he had not been informed of any change.
The bank said it did not have to tell him. "As this was not a change to the Terms and Conditions of your bank account, we had no need to pre-notify customers of the change," HSBC wrote.
Frustrated customers
Mr Cotton cannot understand HSBC's attitude: "I've been banking in that bank for 28 years. They all know me in there. You shouldn't have to explain to your bank why you want that money. It's not theirs, it's yours."
Peter from Wiltshire, who wanted his surname withheld, had a similar experience.
He wanted to take out £10 000 cash from HSBC, some to pay to his sons and some to fund his long-haul travel plans.
Peter phoned up the day before to give HSBC notice and everything seemed to be fine.
The next day he got a call from his local branch asking him to pay his sons via a bank payment and to provide booking receipts for his holidays. Peter did not have any booking receipts to show.
The following day he spoke to HSBC again and this time, having examined his account, it said he could withdraw the £10,000.
Belinda Bell is another customer who was initially denied her cash, in her case to pay her builder. She told Money Box she had to provide the builder's quote.
Customer protection
HSBC has said that following customer feedback, it was changing its policy: "We ask our customers about the purpose of large cash withdrawals when they are unusual and out of keeping with the normal running of their account. Since last November, in some instances we may have also asked these customers to show us evidence of what the cash is required for."
"The reason being we have an obligation to protect our customers, and to minimise the opportunity for financial crime. However, following feedback, we are immediately updating guidance to our customer facing staff to reiterate that it is not mandatory for customers to provide documentary evidence for large cash withdrawals, and on its own, failure to show evidence is not a reason to refuse a withdrawal. We are writing to apologise to any customer who has been given incorrect information and inconvenienced."
Continue reading the main story
"Start Quote
In a sense your money becomes pocket money and the bank becomes your parent"
Douglas Carswell MP for Clacton
Money Box asked other banks what their policy is on large cash withdrawals.
They all said they reserved the right to ask questions about large cash withdrawals.
But none of them said they would require evidence of what the money was being used for before paying out.
Douglas Carswell, the Conservative MP for Clacton, is alarmed by the new HSBC policy: "All these regulations which have been imposed on banks allow enormous interpretation. It basically infantilises the customer. In a sense your money becomes pocket money and the bank becomes your parent."
But Eric Leenders, head of retail at the British Bankers Association, said banks were sensible to ask questions of their customers: "I can understand it's frustrating for customers. But if you are making the occasional large cash withdrawal, the bank wants to make sure it's the right way to make the payment."
weird,, you brought this up. Friday I took a large withdrawal and was quizzed as to what I was going to do with it, also they wanted to know what I did for a living, all the while typing into there computer. I asked them what was up,, they said it is a part of federal anti- money laundering rule.
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I can't wait:
"What are you going to do with this money?"
"Oh, I thought I would buy a bunch of drugs."
"What's your profession?"
"Money launderer"
"What are you going to do with this money?"
"Oh, I thought I would buy a bunch of drugs."
"What's your profession?"
"Money launderer"
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Really one British bank comes up with a policy that they are now changing and some how that has anything to do with Banking in the USA or what goes on at your local Umpqua bank?
To one person a quiz could be making conversation. I talk to the people at our bank about all kinds of things. I can see where if I went in there to withdrawl a huge sum of money the teller might ask me what I'm going to do with it. Much like any acquaintance might ask what I had for lunch if they passed me walking out of a restaurant.
To one person a quiz could be making conversation. I talk to the people at our bank about all kinds of things. I can see where if I went in there to withdrawl a huge sum of money the teller might ask me what I'm going to do with it. Much like any acquaintance might ask what I had for lunch if they passed me walking out of a restaurant.
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What are you going to do with this much money?
Train squirrels to be ninja assassins...
Sorry, we can't....
I'll be closing my account...
Train squirrels to be ninja assassins...
Sorry, we can't....
I'll be closing my account...
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Oh I can't take XXX out without giving you a reason. Well in that case i will take it ALL right now, it is my money. I plan on finding a new bank.
I don't take many larger withdrawals but that is not the point, it is my money to do with as I choose.
A few years back the bank I had been with for over 15 years changed names/companies. Well they wanted to start charging all kinds of fees if I didn't meet XXX requirements. This was their new stance even after going in and talking to them. So I pulled all my money and moved it over to another local bank that did have all these extra fee's. I know many others did also.
I don't take many larger withdrawals but that is not the point, it is my money to do with as I choose.
A few years back the bank I had been with for over 15 years changed names/companies. Well they wanted to start charging all kinds of fees if I didn't meet XXX requirements. This was their new stance even after going in and talking to them. So I pulled all my money and moved it over to another local bank that did have all these extra fee's. I know many others did also.
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I can't wait:
Neither can I:
"alcohol, w h o r e s and gambling - the rest I'll just waste"
Neither can I:
"alcohol, w h o r e s and gambling - the rest I'll just waste"
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B of A questioned my gal when she took out more than a few K .. we switched to a credit union. This is only going to get worse..
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Parallax, thx. I should have also asked if this was $10,000+. The rule about tracking $10K+ transactions has been in place for a while.
Now, if they start asking when it is say $5K then that is even more creepy.
Peter
Now, if they start asking when it is say $5K then that is even more creepy.
Peter
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First Tech Credit union asks and documents at $5k plus.
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Like anything though if ever asked immediately demand to see the HIGHEST ranking person at the branch. If denied call the Corporate HQ and demand to talk to the President. Move to the top quickly and always record names, dates and times. I have done this on more than several occasions when I have had an issue with a company. Don't hassle the young girl at the window.
My question is, why would you have large sums in the bank to begin with. Unless it's parked in a high earning interest account, why let the bank make money off of you.
You can always rent a safety deposit box and stash it there. You can then pull out any amount you wish, as long as the banks aren't closed because of a financial melt down. Then your pooched anyway.
You can always rent a safety deposit box and stash it there. You can then pull out any amount you wish, as long as the banks aren't closed because of a financial melt down. Then your pooched anyway.
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The monetary threshold used to be 6K before they would report to the IRS. I have never had an issues with BECU.
Ya, the banks aren't doing this for their own recreation, that is for sure. There is a major effort behind the scenes to eliminate cash (currency, checks) and to go all digital. I get the impression the "what are you going to do with the funds" questions are to facilitate making large cash transactions uncomfortable, pushing people towards digital. All under the guise of preventing "money laundering." The real reason is taxation ; broke and panicked governments need to go after every cent they can, and since cash transactions are easier to slip through the cracks, they want them eliminated. I'm fascinated by the ramifications to the underground economy, and what form (other than cash) of payment the underground economy will eventually use. Homeless, panhandlers, the illegal drug industry, etc., etc., will always exist (how will they adapt?), and, you can't let them disappear or the local, state, and federal agencies that thrive because of them would disappear also. Can't have that! Fascinating time.
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