background checks...

[Koda]

I tell you what, when it comes to background checks there are a lot of pro gun and regular folks who believe in them, and I have a hard time selling the idea that its a registration scheme. If it wasn't for the make, model and serial number part I would be in full support.

How many here are in the same boat and how do you sell the idea that background checks are bad?

Read More

 

[IronMonster]

Well, As a person who has a right to buy a gun who is regularly denied and has to pay a attorney big bucks to get it sorted out sometimes taking 6-12 months I have an issue with it.

I think I have had to fight roughly 6 deny's, Most of the time I have appealed it and got it reversed however I did have one that they denied my appeal.

At this point they are not processing appeals so if I get a deny I am just screwed

I dont mind being vetted, However I wish they could get their damn act together and make it reasonable.

Last year I bought a .22 pistol for $260 that cost me $3500 in attorney fees to get sorted out.

So yeah, I am not ok with that.

It is damn near impossible to argue with the FBI. There is no process. If they deny you they may not even give you a specific reason.

I am looking forward to moving to Idaho where a enhanced concealed carry card exempts you from a NICI check. ( I have both a Washington and Oregon card now )

 

[Koda]

Ironmonster, thanks for the reply because I need to focus more on something else other than the idea the background check is a registration scheme because that just makes me look like a conspiracy theorist and goes nowhere. I need to learn more about the failure of the system

 

[bolus]

I've pretty much ended arguing or debating, its just so tiresome. But in the past when asked why I would not want universal background checks or registration or what not, I usually dont argue against the checks, I argue against the people we put in charge to make the laws. You cant come up with any logical reason Prozanski killed the C&R FFL in Oregon.

"why dont you want universal background checks?"
"Because my legislature used their position to kill the C&R FFL, Licensees are probably the most unlikely of any group to commit a crime with a firearm, I dont trust them to make a good law and represent me"
"..." *crickets*

I have yet to have anyone who came up with a good reason to kill the C&R.

 

[Koda]

I've pretty much ended arguing or debating, its just so tiresome. But in the past when asked why I would not want universal background checks or registration or what not, I usually dont argue against the checks, I argue against the people we put in charge to make the laws. You cant come up with any logical reason Prozanski killed the C&R FFL in Oregon.

"why dont you want universal background checks?"
"Because my legislature used their position to kill the C&R FFL, Licensees are probably the most unlikely of any group to commit a crime with a firearm, I dont trust them to make a good law and represent me"
"..." *crickets*

I have yet to have anyone who came up with a good reason to kill the C&R.

2 parts... I've also mostly given up the debating part but I still get engaged in conversations about gun control, its inevitable, especially when we have a mass shooting. I don't debate if it turns into one I leave, but I've mostly participate in the conversation and inevitably background checks usually come up my friends and circle are mostly civil and respectable in this regard but if I say the govt. is registering all guns to confiscate later I come off as a conspiracy theorist when federal says they must destroy the FFL record of sale the next business day.

about the C&R... I bet the reason you get no response is because most people don't even know what that is, including most gun owners, wont even know what that has to do with the current situation.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Good question! My Wife asked me this the first time she had to go through the BGC. Her main question was; Why do I have to to a BGC for each and every gun purchase? Good question!!!

 

[Koda]

I am looking forward to moving to Idaho where a enhanced concealed carry card exempts you from a NICI check. ( I have both a Washington and Oregon card now )

does this mean you could buy as many as you want without a background check, no make model and serial number just here's the money and my card?

I like this idea BTW. No doubt there is a better way to do this background check system but the antis pick the most intrusive way that doesn't work but sets up for confiscation... thus my conspiracy theory.

 

[Nick Burkhardt]

Anti Mag cap video

 

[slimmer13]

I have a problem with the entire concept of people walking around our society that are second class citizens, with only some rights intact.

Either you've paid your debt to society and are all square, or you haven't. If you are too dangerous to purchase a firearm, you are either too dangerous to be free, or too dangerous to be alive.

The entire concept that letting some of these recitivist scumbags out of prison with a few restrictions will keep them from getting ahold of firearms is laughable. Let alone cars, knives, bats etc.

We should have stiff penalties for violent crime that must be served to the day, in miserable prisons and when you get out you should be released with full rights intact so you have a chance of improving your life without the stigma of being a felon keeping you a criminal.

So for the op, I don't believe in BGCs, because I don't believe in the concept of prohibit persons.

 

[slimmer13]

Let alone, I don't believe any of the rights in the BOR were meant to be only exercised after petitioning the government for approval.

 

[IronMonster]

does this mean you could buy as many as you want without a background check, no make model and serial number just here's the money and my card?

I like this idea BTW. No doubt there is a better way to do this background check system but the antis pick the most intrusive way that doesn't work but sets up for confiscation... thus my conspiracy theory.

You still fill out a 4473 but it is just for the FFL's records like in the old days. Nothing is called in if you hold an enhanced carry card.

 

[JRuby]

I have a problem with the entire concept of people walking around our society that are second class citizens, with only some rights intact.

Either you've paid your debt to society and are all square, or you haven't. If you are too dangerous to purchase a firearm, you are either too dangerous to be free, or too dangerous to be alive.

The entire concept that letting some of these recitivist scumbags out of prison with a few restrictions will keep them from getting ahold of firearms is laughable. Let alone cars, knives, bats etc.

We should have stiff penalties for violent crime that must be served to the day, in miserable prisons and when you get out you should be released with full rights intact so you have a chance of improving your life without the stigma of being a felon keeping you a criminal.

So for the op, I don't believe in BGCs, because I don't believe in the concept of prohibit persons.

When they stop letting people out due to over crowding or early I might start to believe as you do. Currently I believe that's an individual"'s choices should have long lasting consequences especially when an individual commits a felony.I am not very forgiving when it comes to people doing stupid stuff.

 

[PaulB47]

how do you sell the idea that background checks are bad?

I don't know if I sell anything. If the subject comes up, I just tell people that the world is different than it seems, that the interests of the ruling class are not the same as our interests, and that politicians are nothing but a bunch of lying, corrupt, self-serving bubblegums who no one in his right mind would want to introduce his daughter to. And I leave it at that.

 

[The Resister]

I tell you what, when it comes to background checks there are a lot of pro gun and regular folks who believe in them, and I have a hard time selling the idea that its a registration scheme. If it wasn't for the make, model and serial number part I would be in full support.

How many here are in the same boat and how do you sell the idea that background checks are bad?

Okay, the mainstream will try to dissuade you because they claim it sounds like conspiracy theory. Let me explain to you how this works in the real world:

Today, you go down and fill out the Form 4473, show your ID, etc. and buy a weapon. In some states, some kind of "Firearms Permit" allows you to skirt the actual background check, but it boils down to this:

When they started the background crap, the NRA boasted to their membership that the then BATF (now BATFE) could only hold your records for x amount of time (30, 60 90 days - I forget.) After that they were required to destroy the registration information.

Fast forward to the so-called "Patriot Act" and the infiltrated Tea Party and Establishment Republicans. Under this new law government agencies are required to share information. So, when you buy a firearm, the info is forwarded to BICE which uses the pretext of screening for illegal aliens as an interest in your info. Well, the time period expires after you buy a weapon and all that info is destroyed by BATFE... so you're good, right?

Noooooo. BICE is under no statutory obligation to destroy your purchase records... Name, Socialist Surveillance Number ooops - Social Security Number, Make of the Gun, Model and Serial Number... Well, they have it and it's just a few keystrokes away for ANY government agency to access them.

You have an unalienable Right to keep and bear Arms. It is wholly unconstitutional, from a strict constructionist viewpoint, to have to beg permission to exercise a Right you have wherein the early courts ruled were above the law. The background check IS National Gun Registration.

Now the kicker - I could eliminate most mass shootings without any new gun legislation. But, it's not front page news and nobody wants to start working at the grass roots level to put the left on the defensive.