Armslist fool

[etrain16]

I used to enjoy finding deals on Armslist - never been taken advantage of, though some folks did try - I'm just not that gullible. In each attempt, they were either selling something well below what it should be worth and I was just poking around to see if it was a real deal, or, someone offers me more than I'm asking, just to ship it off somewhere. Honestly, these types of folks must run into some really easily fooled people, because their tactics are just so obvious. Either way, SB941 has killed the fun of buying/selling used, so I have all but stopped doing it. In fact, I've not even looked at AL for 6 months.

Buying and selling is always risky business, and there is risk at times even with well-established vendors. Bad things can happen even if you do everything right. I don't know the details of @ob1's deal, but he doesn't seem like someone that would be easily taken. Some folks are just slimeballs and may get by most of the time, until someone calls them on their crappy tactics.

I simply use as much common sense and caution as possible, which is no 100% guarantee. And, at this point, I will really only buy from someone I know, someone who is well-established on this forum or has all positive feedback, or from a respected vendor. Sucks it has to be that way, but I'm pretty attached to my money, I hate for it to go away due to some douche-nozzle.

@ob1, I hope things work out for you, sorry to hear about that.

 

[PDX0621]

All the mind numbing, annoying, waste of time people on AL is what made me discover this site. While I've had a couple good experiences selling a few things on AL, the other 99% is a total waste of time. The rampant scams are the biggest part, but luckily most are easy to spot. The rest is equally annoying. Time wasters, flakes, tire kickers, etc. Can't tell you how many times once I finally did get someone who was supposedly interested and had set up a meet at an FFL, they dropped off the face of the Earth and never replied again. No one reads the descriptions or ads, low ball the absolute hell out of you, or try to offer some ridiculous nonsensical trades. Even had a guy agree to a meet until the night before when I called to verify and just before hanging up the guy says, "One last thing, is the gun registered to you?" Me - Of course, why wouldn't it be? Guy - "Aaaaaah dang" Me - Why is that a problem? Guy - "You know, uhh, I was kinda looking for something I could just pick up real quick and no have to worry about all the paperwork. I'm from Cali and don't have an Oregon ID yet..." Riiiiight. I used to have the guys name, phone number, and email. If I can find it I'll post it up here.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Outside of this forum, are there really any better options for sellers?? I mean, I get that the SB941 and the WA laws makes things much more ornery for buyers and sellers alike.... the whole transfers thing and such... however, it does seem like most ads I see, there's practically no difference from the local gun shops prices save for some good deals... it IS a buyer's market for certain firearms though. I myself am kind of frustrated because I need to pay off a pawn shop loan, and there seems to be no real interest in what I have for sale..... even though they are priced well below what they cost me.

 

[etrain16]

Outside of this forum, are there really any better options for sellers?? I mean, I get that the SB941 and the WA laws makes things much more ornery for buyers and sellers alike.... the whole transfers thing and such... however, it does seem like most ads I see, there's practically no difference from the local gun shops prices save for some good deals... it IS a buyer's market for certain firearms though. I myself am kind of frustrated because I need to pay off a pawn shop loan, and there seems to be no real interest in what I have for sale..... even though they are priced well below what they cost me.

I'd be willing to bet there is still a healthy used gun market - but not on the surface in places like AL or NWFA. Rather, I think it's underground, word of mouth and invitation only. For everyone else, following I-594 and SB941 coupled with near new asking prices by sellers is just killing the used gun market. Probably what the f*^k tards in Salem and Olympia planned all along - more control over gun owners.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Part of me is like "May as well as take what the pawn shop offers me even if it mean maybe getting under $50 for it outside the loan already given" But the more rational part of me is like, come on, there's got to be more interest in something this good of a deal than it seems so far.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Armslist is usually okay for local deals on stuff that you know is priced right. If you are a seller... Armslist is a nightmare.

Scams all day long. You can spot it in the first sentence. I go along with it and have them send me the check. I always make up a name to see if they catch on........ they dont. I have checks made out to Clint Eastwood, Jerry Seinfeld, Winston Churchill, Haywood Jablome, etc.
I then let them know that they wasted their $40 to overnight the check... They argue a bit, but always go away. Though they've threatened to kill me a couple of times

Unfortunately, no one is interested in shutting these guys down. I used to think that check fraud was a crime, that using the mail to commit fraud, felony fraud was a crime. Apparently it isnt.
I do this almost weekly... I love to waste their time and money... As such, I end up with a lot of addresses and fake checks (drawn from real banks), Ive even strung them along to the point that I almost had a person on the other side waiting to accept a wire transfer.

Ive talked to police and other state/fed agencies.... no one cares.

Like how I had my CC# taken and they cloned the card, used it a few times... I had them nailed. There was a surveillance camera at the register, the store said they had the video and a clear image of the person. However, they wouldnt give it to me.
So I called the police... That was a waste of time, I live in Vancouver but the fraud happened in Portland. So I had to initiate police report in 'couve who then relayed it to pdx police (who would follow up in a week) After calling VPD and PPB several times over the course of 6 months... I finally gave up. I had an identity theft ring on a gilded platter for them and they couldnt care less to do anything about it. What sucks is that I know Im not the only one they hit.

Seems like fraud is like going 5mph over the limit anymore.


Armslist is such a waste of time now. Most of the ads are dealers with overpriced stuff, buyers who constantly offer non-gun related crap in trade, buyers who always want an under the table deal, fake check scams in my email weekly... Rarely is there a local deal worth checking out.

Gunbroker is a little better. The only thing worse is getting burned by a misrepresented item is the fact that these guys... 90% of them, absolutely violate you with shipping. Think youre getting a good deal on a gun, but then see that you have to pay $50 in shipping... it sucks (esp in WA where we have to pay tax on shipping) I keep looking at a small black powder pistol on there, but Im not paying $35 shipping when we all know it will fit in a small flat rate box.

rant/off

Haywood Jablome!!! That's just so wrong!

 

[ob1]

@ob1, I hope things work out for you, sorry to hear about that.

Thanks e-train, this has certainly been a fecal odyssey. During the months since this has all started, I've looked back at the steps available to me, to see if there was something I shoulda /coulda done differently.
As far as my actual dealings with the seller, I haven't found much. The pertinent questions and answers were documented. The photos were carefully examined etc.
When you are dealing with someone from a distance, all you can do is judge how they represent themselves and the item. You don't get that chance to look them in the eye.

The obvious mistake I made, as others have pointed out, was not to buy locally. The fact that I was looking for an out of production piece with a very specific set of features clouded my judgment in that respect. I was tired of waiting to find that "just right" piece.
My biggest mistake, was to assume that there is some sort of accountability imposed on the seller by GB. Never before having a GB deal go bad like this, I wrongly assumed they would act in a manner similar to how Ebay handles disputes between buyer and seller. They don't. They seem to just sit back and watch with a big bowl of popcorn.

Something I see I did right. I arranged for the shipping/transfer to be handled through a well known competent gunsmith. Not a dealer or pawnshop. If I had gone that route, I would now be sitting without a prayer to make any sort of recovery on this. He was able to act as a third party witness and expert examiner all at the same time. Very valuable as I proceed with this thing.

 

[etrain16]

Thanks e-train, this has certainly been a fecal odyssey. During the months since this has all started, I've looked back at the steps available to me, to see if there was something I shoulda /coulda done differently.
As far as my actual dealings with the seller, I haven't found much. The pertinent questions and answers were documented. The photos were carefully examined etc.
When you are dealing with someone from a distance, all you can do is judge how they represent themselves and the item. You don't get that chance to look them in the eye.

The obvious mistake I made, as others have pointed out, was not to buy locally. The fact that I was looking for an out of production piece with a very specific set of features clouded my judgment in that respect. I was tired of waiting to find that "just right" piece.
My biggest mistake, was to assume that there is some sort of accountability imposed on the seller by GB. Never before having a GB deal go bad like this, I wrongly assumed they would act in a manner similar to how Ebay handles disputes between buyer and seller. They don't. They seem to just sit back and watch with a big bowl of popcorn.

Something I see I did right. I arranged for the shipping/transfer to be handled through a well known competent gunsmith. Not a dealer or pawnshop. If I had gone that route, I would now be sitting without a prayer to make any sort of recovery on this. He was able to act as a third party witness and expert examiner all at the same time. Very valuable as I proceed with this thing.

I've only done maybe 3 deals on Gunbroker, honestly, I just don't like how the site is set up or how it works, so I tend to avoid it. When it comes to buying out of state, I've actively bought and sold on Ebay since the mid 2000's and have had very few issues.

The last issue I had, a guy bought what I was selling (a complete Glock 35 upper), then turned around and realized it wasn't for a Gen 4 (which I VERY clearly called out, and warned potential buyers about in the ad), so he disputed the purchase with Ebay. Now, at this stage of the game, he was obligated, under Ebay's T&C's to buy the slide from me since he hit 'buy it now' and actually completed the purchase. So, he contacted Ebay, who contacted me and explained the situation. I have maintained a 100% positive rating on Ebay since I started, and like to keep it that way. I was under no obligation to refund his money, something he was fully aware of, but asked if I would be kind enough to do so. And while it did cause me a little grief (he cost me a legitimate seller as several were already watching the item) and time, it wasn't the end of the world, so I directed Ebay to refund his money. I relisted the item and sold it a week later. The buyer sent me a note thanking me several times for helping him out.

Point being, some people care about customer service, some don't. Seems maybe GB doesn't care about it, and obviously your seller doesn't give a flying sh!te about it either. Too bad too. It would probably have made things a lot easier on everyone, including the seller, if he would have just found a way to settle this quickly. I see no reason to fight this crap over little disputes.

Anyway, I do hope it works out for you.

Good idea about sending it to a smith though, I would never have thought of that. Making a mental note now.

 

[Velzey]

I always recommend asking for additional photos of any firearm that is up for sale/auction. If the seller is hesitant at sending additional detailed photos I don't give the firearm another look. To many others for sale to deal with a seller that is dishonest.

As of late I have been receiving emails with 30-50 photos of Clark 1911 bullseye pistols for sale. Most sellers say sure no problem and flood my email with photos. ALL examined before the pistol is purchased!!!! Very important as we found out @ob1
Ob1 sent me a link after the fact

So if anyone is ever looking at a firearm online please feel free to have photos sent to me For examination. I've been doing this a long time and a few detailed photos can tell me allot.

 

[etrain16]

I always recommend asking for additional photos of any firearm that is up for sale/auction. If the seller is hesitant at sending additional detailed photos I don't give the firearm another look. To many others for sale to deal with a seller that is dishonest.

As of late I have been receiving emails with 30-50 photos of Clark 1911 bullseye pistols for sale. Most sellers say sure no problem and flood my email with photos. ALL examined before the pistol is purchased!!!! Very important as we found out @ob1
Ob1 sent me a link after the fact

So if anyone is ever looking at a firearm online please feel free to have photos sent to me For examination. I've been doing this a long time and a few detailed photos can tell me allot.

That's pretty cool of you to help out the community like that - thanks!!

 

[shibbershabber]

Haywood Jablome!!! That's just so wrong!

Old post...

But for sure, the scams just keep coming... I never get tired of waiting for them to 'scam' me

Here are some of my favorites

 

[Ruger Rich]

I scan Armslist every day. I made one sale in Sportsmans Outdoor parking lot. I've made two buys in the Toys R Us parking lot. All three were prior to 941 and all three went down fairly, and all three were off of Armslist. Not much of a sample size I admit. I dont see what the Armslist issue is. If I saw something I wanted we would have to meet at an FFl facility to finalize the transaction. Anything "hinky" should be apparent at that time. And I do agree that here is the best place to do business. 'Tis true "Real gun people have more scruples".

 

[ob1]

Old post...

But for sure, the scams just keep coming... I never get tired of waiting for them to 'scam' me

Here are some of my favorites
View attachment 466036

Haywood Jablome!!! That's just so wrong!

Always good to re-read Sgt.Nambu gold.

 

[DuneHopper]

I had many on Armslist pre- 941 and many on FB, many were repeat and solidified a network after 941.

I think of AL like I do Craigs, I know where the cameras are in town and now any and every transaction even if its not for a FA, is done at specific places unless its a regular then we have out own back alleys LOL

 

[Boboclown]

I treat AL with... We're doing it at a FFL unless I know you have a CCW, in which case I'll bring a bill of sale.

Or if I know you personally, in which case I'd probably just sell it to you at your house and offer a discount.

 

[CountryGent]

Do you guys find that Gunbroker.com listings are more reputable than Armslist?

I've bought a ton (and a lesser extent sold) on Gunbroker since shortly after they were around and have had zero problems. Gun Auctions (formerly Auction Arms) was good back in the day, but totally went into the dumpster in recent years (buggy system, deadbeats, people grossly ignorant of the laws, and the final straw was dealing an outright fraud.) No experience with Armlists other than a few email exchanges that convinced me to go back to GB. YMMV.

 

[Who The F R U]

When the gun's in my hand, and I'm happy, I'll show you the money!
I'm not fond of scammers! And.....I trust NO ONE!!!

Actually, I'm so paranoid about crooks and scammers that I only look for guns on this site! I know that you are all honest, decent and morally superior!

I wouldn't go that far......