Are there any cartridges better than the .30-06?

[1stklass]

Shotguns are way more versatile but i believe this thread was about Rifle cartridges so i'll put my two cents in. I have NO personal experience with the cartridge i will be tossing in the ring. Earlier this year when my 10 year old daughter and 12 year old son graduated from hunter/gun safety i started looking for a good all around hunting rifle they would enjoy now and hopefully would keep and enjoy for the next 50 years.
My final decision was the 25 WSSM and i'm surprised in 8 pages nobody has mentioned it. Nowadays you can youtube anything and the devastating performance on coyotes, deer and elk i saw was impressive. Everyone told me .243 for starting kids out, some said 270. What i learned when i started leaning to an AR based platform for my kids to hunt with is the .243 and .270 because of cartridge length have to be done in the AR10 platform. Considering the weight of the rifle my kids would be carrying the savings in weight by being able to carry the lighter of the 2 platforms was one consideration. Accuracy was another. 500 yards seemed no problem for coyotes, almost 400 on deer, and if my memory serves correctly i found one video of an elk being taken at 250 yards and traveling something like 70 yards before collapsing. Versatity in Bullet sizes and light recoil for performance were also great, the recoil tests showed 243 kick with 270 performance on ballistics.... again i have no personal experience with this cartridge but i think i will give it a try ..... i mean let my kids give it a try

 

[Silver Hand]

22 Long Rifle... Shot placement would be an utmost requirement on big game, range would be very limited and if anything went wrong on the the first shot, you've likely lost the animal. Were I guaranteed a still animal at less than 50 yards, I'm sure It would "bring home the bacon". But I don't think it's "better" than many centerfire rounds.

Still, it's a very valuable tool to have.

Yup, the .22 rim fire might do OK overall in a last resort situation. I read the post to long and lost track of the original question. Sorry.
I hand load and have chosen the .300 Win mag. for its powder capacity and bullet selection, including cast. It has a slight edge over the o6 at longer range and I have put it to the test more times than I can remember.
Silver Hand

 

[clambo]

Shotguns are way more versatile but i believe this thread was about Rifle cartridges so i'll put my two cents in. I have NO personal experience with the cartridge i will be tossing in the ring. Earlier this year when my 10 year old daughter and 12 year old son graduated from hunter/gun safety i started looking for a good all around hunting rifle they would enjoy now and hopefully would keep and enjoy for the next 50 years.
My final decision was the 25 WSSM and i'm surprised in 8 pages nobody has mentioned it. Nowadays you can youtube anything and the devastating performance on coyotes, deer and elk i saw was impressive. Everyone told me .243 for starting kids out, some said 270. What i learned when i started leaning to an AR based platform for my kids to hunt with is the .243 and .270 because of cartridge length have to be done in the AR10 platform. Considering the weight of the rifle my kids would be carrying the savings in weight by being able to carry the lighter of the 2 platforms was one consideration. Accuracy was another. 500 yards seemed no problem for coyotes, almost 400 on deer, and if my memory serves correctly i found one video of an elk being taken at 250 yards and traveling something like 70 yards before collapsing. Versatity in Bullet sizes and light recoil for performance were also great, the recoil tests showed 243 kick with 270 performance on ballistics.... again i have no personal experience with this cartridge but i think i will give it a try ..... i mean let my kids give it a try

I wouldn't spend a lot of my money betting on the .25 WSSM as being voted the most useful rifle cartridge ever. I wouldn't buy one if I were you. Every couple years there is a bunch of " new " wonder calibers introduced. Generally one or two out of a dozen may make it into the long term mainstream shooting world....while most go the way of the dinosaur in a year or two. .25 WSSM....won't be here long. At least not in the mainstream shooting world not will you easily be able to get factory ammo for it. Too many other established rounds already available that will do the same job. Barrel life is reportedly short. I don't own one but I do know what " overbore " means as it applies to rifles. Just trying to save you some grief later. If I had your criteria with the kids and all, I'd probably be thinking 7mm-08.

 

[orygun]

If I had your criteria with the kids and all, I'd probably be thinking 7mm-08.

This is one underrated little SOB! After a lot of deliberation I bought one for my wife as her primary hunting rifle. It doesn't kick too much and it does it's job well.

 

[Squidly]

Anyone ever shoot an 8mm-06?

 

[JGRuby]

Use to have a 8mm-06 AI but gave it to a freind - it was actually a nice little rifle, figured he could use an actual hunting rifle instead of hauling a 14 lb sniper rifle all over the place. Shot 200gr Speer bullets real well.

James Ruby

 

[Squidly]

Excellent elk rifle round. I have a sporterized egyptian mauser reamed to -06. Nice shooter.

 

[DeanMk]

My father and his old huntin' buddy were big proponents of the 8mm-06 when I was growing up.
Dad always said the GI's nickname for the 8mm Mauser was "The German '06".

If I had your criteria with the kids and all, I'd probably be thinking 7mm-08.

Ok, confession time.
In a prior post I waxed poetic on the advantages of a 12 ga.
While I still believe that is a viable choice, I will have to admit I got caught up in the "versatility" comments of posts prior.
My original answer was going to be 7mm-08 - namely, a Remington Model 7 with a 1.5-6x Bushnell Trophy XLT and a nice comfy (wide!) strap.
That's a good light rig that'll work on any game in north america.
So maybe I should recant my prior statement and go back to my first choice, especially considering that the crux of the question isn't so much versatility as it is scope of effectiveness
...and before all the who-ha starts up about downing Moose across canyon's or Polar Bears across ice bergs, I submit this piece I found on Wikipedia...

Wayne van Zwoll of Petersen's Hunting magazine wrote: "Efficient case design and a bullet weight range suitable for most North American big game make the 7mm-08 a fine choice for all-around hunting. Civil in recoil, it's a perfect match for lightweight, short-action rifles. It has also courted favor on metallic silhouette ranges, where its 140-grain bullets reach 500-yard targets faster and with as much energy as 150-grain .308s." He also described it as "deadly" for elk.

Pretty much sums it up, right there.


Dean

 

[JGRuby]

Maybe I ought to look at my 7X57 for elk - its pretty darn close to a 7mm-08. I imagine one wouild need to use bullets heavier than 140 gr. . I have always used hornady interlok's because they shot so well. I have three boxes of nosler partition 140gr and plan to see how those shoot. Is the general consesus that a 7X57 is big enough for elk? I know it would be one heck of a lot easier to carry than my 9.3X62.

James Ruby

 

[clambo]

Jack O'Conner's wife often used the 7x57 for elk as well as pretty much everything else. I personally think it's elk capable to reasonable ranges, say 300 yds. Seems to be one of those " magical " calibers that performs better on game than science says it should. Long bullet, modest velocity, good penetration. A lot of people feel that way about the 6.5x55 as well. But then again the 3 rifle calibers I use for everything are .257 Roberts, .300 Savage, and .300 H&H mag. I like the oldies.

 

[JGRuby]

I think if I could only have two rifles for North America hunting, it would be my 7mm mauser and 9.3X62 and I think I could reasonably handle anything within 300 yards or so. For a general purpose rifle I think for me it must fit between these two calibers in capability. To me the 30-06 fits in there best.

James Ruby

 

[orygun]

Maybe I ought to look at my 7X57 for elk - its pretty darn close to a 7mm-08. I imagine one wouild need to use bullets heavier than 140 gr. . I have always used hornady interlok's because they shot so well. I have three boxes of nosler partition 140gr and plan to see how those shoot. Is the general consesus that a 7X57 is big enough for elk? I know it would be one heck of a lot easier to carry than my 9.3X62.

James Ruby

140gr partition+reasonable velocity+decent shot placement=Dead elk.

My wife shoots 140gr Partitions in her 7mm-08. Dead elk.

 

[DeanMk]

Maybe I ought to look at my 7X57 for elk - its pretty darn close to a 7mm-08. I imagine one wouild need to use bullets heavier than 140 gr. . I have always used hornady interlok's because they shot so well. I have three boxes of nosler partition 140gr and plan to see how those shoot. Is the general consesus that a 7X57 is big enough for elk? I know it would be one heck of a lot easier to carry than my 9.3X62.

James Ruby

Jim,

General consensus says 140 gr. works up to medium sized game. 160-175 gr. for anything larger.
I believe the more modern cartridge will stand a little more pressure than the Mauser (54k vs. 45k, IIRC), but yeah, performance-wise, the 08 is generally considered to be a modern variation on the old 7mm Mauser.
If you happen to have the 20th anniversary issue of Gun Digest, flip to page 140 and check out the unbelieveable rack shown with a gun resting in it.
The caption underneath reads as follows; "Flat shooting 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum came through when the chips were down and this record-book caribou had to be taken at over 400 yards. When grizzly was shot at 150 yards with same rifle, it had plenty of stopping power with 175. gr. Nosler.".
Now granted, the old Mashburn was more in the class of the Remington Magnum, so a direct comparison to the Mauser and the "08" is a little "grapes-to-tomatoes", but my point is that it shows that 7mm bullets are capable of bringing down large game, and at fairly long distances.




Dean

 

[orygun]

Jim,

General consensus says 140 gr. works up to medium sized game. 160-175 gr. for anything larger.
I believe the more modern cartridge will stand a little more pressure than the Mauser (54k vs. 45k, IIRC), but yeah, performance-wise, the 08 is generally considered to be a modern variation on the old 7mm Mauser.
If you happen to have the 20th anniversary issue of Gun Digest, flip to page 140 and check out the unbelieveable rack shown with a gun resting in it.
The caption underneath reads as follows; "Flat shooting 7mm Mashburn Super Magnum came through when the chips were down and this record-book caribou had to be taken at over 400 yards. When grizzly was shot at 150 yards with same rifle, it had plenty of stopping power with 175. gr. Nosler.".
Now granted, the old Mashburn was more in the class of the Remington Magnum, so a direct comparison to the Mauser and the "08" is a little "grapes-to-tomatoes", but my point is that it shows that 7mm bullets are capable of bringing down large game, and at fairly long distances.




Dean

But you're comparing the 7mm-08 and the 7x57 to larger casings. True, the 7x57 made history with a certain fella killing many elephants with the 175gr bullet, but the 140 class is pretty efficient and will move out much more quickly. Maybe not as important with the 7x57 if handloaded, but either cartridge and a short barrel will appreciate the lighter bullet.

 

[DeanMk]

Actually, I'm not.
I was only trying to show that a 7mm bullet can be effective on larger game.
James Ruby seemed to doubt that fact, thus his penchant for using the 9.3 Mauser for Elk hunting.
Yes, for 90% of the hunting most of us are going to do, the 140 gr. bullets will probably suffice.
I think it's Remington's most popular bullet weight for the 7-08.
That's not to say, however, that either cartridges (Mauser and Remington) cannot be effective with a heavier bullet.
I never had a problem using the ancient 175gr. Super-X's in my brother's Mauser.
For a long time, it was the only bullet weight you could get for the 7x57.


Dean

 

[Brutus57]

I look at it like this...the 06 is a military cartridge that you can easily hunt with. All the other .375, 25 06, .270, etc. aren't ubiquitous enough for non hunting applications even the Mauser round is not a 10th as common to find in any old store as the .30 06.

The 06 is the hammer you can frame, roof and finish with.
YMMV
Brutus Out

 

[DeanMk]

Couldn't have said it better, Brutus.
I think it is most likely the most versatile cartridge the world has ever known.


Dean

 

[oremike]

the 30-06 and 45 ACP are the calibers all others are compared to, ever wonder why?

 

[DeanMk]

oremike,

The LC, not the ACP.
That and the .38 Special are the bench marks for revolvers.
The ACP will always be the little brother to the Long Colt.



Dean

 

[Backfire]

I've had a few .30-'06 bolt action rifles and all performed reliably and accurately, but I'm having one of them rebarreled to .280 Rem., and I hope to have more to tell you when I've done some load development.