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Are Police Officers Soldiers ?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by RicInOR, Mar 25, 2015.

  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The question is about the 3rd Amendment.
    You know it, right.
    No quartering of Troops without permission.

    Anyways, at the time of the founding of our Republic, there was no such thing as a police force. Sure, there were occasional police, usually private, dating from the Romans. But the "modern" police force didn't come about until after 1850. First in London England IIRC. Mostly a move into cities affect.


    So, If a SWAT team throws you out of your house for safety - and then takes it over for an operation
    is that subject to the restrictions of the 3rd Amendment?

    If you are interested - good article here:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...hird-amendment-claim-against-police-officers/

    For the TL;DR folks, a Federal judge has ruled that municipal police are not soldiers and therefore the 3rd amendment does not apply.
     
  2. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    I find it interesting that one time the Constitution is taken "literally" and police aren't "soldiers"... and the next time "shall not be infringed" becomes "figurative" so that "bear arms" become "bear sporting goods".

    I swear, one day soon some dopey Federal Judge will rule that while my heart may belong to my wife...my butt is a National Historic Site, and that hemorrhoids are a protected indigenous species, and as such I'm required to get permission from the EPA to scratch my own arse.

    Some how the first one got double posted, so I deleted it
     
  3. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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    What authority grants anyone permission to forcefully evict you for "Safety" reasons? Google was no help...
     
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  4. boogerhook

    boogerhook Seattle Well-Known Member

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    just wait for it: what was meant is your right arm and your left arm and the rest shall be infringed with "common sense"
     
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  5. ikemay

    ikemay WA Well-Known Member

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    I would think this falls into 4th Amendment territory. "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    Seems the police "seized" their property without a proper warrant or any kind of due process. Basically, they would be considered "trespassers", I don't care who they are. The next place to look would be at their State's Constitution and laws to see if their are any justifications or "cover" for the local police doing this.


    Mike
     
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  6. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    @Riot the police have guns, that is a lot of authority right there.
    Something going down at a neighbors house, the police like to get everyone else out of the neighborhood.
    Much like Boston getting shut down following the bombing, I am not certain it is legal, but in the moment you are not in a position to argue. I have been blocked out of my Washington County neighborhood twice since I have lived in this house; So happy we have MAX. They were concerned for my families safety - not sure on their legal grounds.


    @ikemay I hadn't thought about the the 4th. Maybe this guys lawyer will try again.





    Given a typical patrol officer, a bit of a thought experiment:

    Could a LEO take on a company of troops (130ish) with a cannon in the 1775 time frame.
    He's facing muskets - smooth bore, accurate under 100 yds.
    He have 3 or 4 mags of 30 = equally armed. Accuracy, especially at ranges over 100yds. Plus, The LEO has a handgun, probably a shotgun, or possibly a sub-machine gun in addition to the battle rifle. Plus, he is wearing body armor. (Items typically found in the patrol car.)

    How about 1865. Now you'd be facing mini-ball and the chance of some repeaters. Maybe 50 to one.

    How about 1915. You are facing bolt guns, instead of a cannon you'd face a heavy machine gun. 8 to 1,

    When the "cavalry" arrives, they are in an armored vehicle with full auto machine guns, or more powerful weapons. Helicopters.

    So, LEO look like soldiers, train like soldiers, talk like soldiers, fight wars on this and wars on that ... I know, they are social workers.
     
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  7. 10010110

    10010110 Forest Grove region Active Member

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    Civilians = non-military, which includes police. Police != military, therefore police = civilians and are supposed to be subject to the same laws as the rest of us.

    It's a different question about the mindset of police officers.
     
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  8. albin25

    albin25 Lewiston Idaho Well-Known Member

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    We're talking about activist judges in the Federal Courts here ...
    So...
    If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, flies like a duck, quacks like a duck, has webbed feet, feathers, a flat bill and a longish neck and tastes good with orange sauce...
    ...If the Judge's politics say it's Fern...it's found to be a Fern.
    ...but that only causes an appeal to a higher court, that gets kicked back to the lower court for a review by the original court, then appealed again to a higher court, and higher again... until as many lawyers as possible can get paid. Finally after several years the SCOTUS changes "Fern" to the generic "Waterfowl". Then Congress gets involved by passing a bill to make sure waterfowl's right to self-identification is protected. The species now called Waterfowl decides he "identifies" as a protected Bald Eagle and after declaring "wings up, don't shoot", flies majestically away...directly into a giant wind turbine near Kennewick that instantly chops him into Pate.

    Moral to the story?
    ....Someone should have yelled, "DUCK!!!" before the whole flustercuck got started
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2015
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  9. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  10. Riot

    Riot Benton County, Washington Well-Known Member

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  11. 10010110

    10010110 Forest Grove region Active Member

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    The legal industry (not justice system) keeps itself quite busy by exercising its hoops on its monopoly of violence and problem resolution.

     
  12. lonegunman

    lonegunman Eastern Washington Active Member

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    Policeman are basically thugs with guns. They do as they please, violate your rights, lie, decieve, seize, abuse and destroy your property with no regard for the laws or common decency. Prisons are filled with people convicted on lies and false testimony of a law officer. If you feel you have been wronged in some way, it is up to you to go after them in the courts at your own expense and they will fight you tooth and nail with lawyers paid for by your own tax dollars.

    In CDA, Idaho a woman is suing the local PD because they shot up her home while gunfighting with a thug in her yard and refused to pay for the damages. Two years ago one of their armed goons walked up to a car, stuck his gun thru the cracked open side window and shot some guys lab puppy in the face in front of a coffee shop. It cost taxpayers $80K to make it right and I'm pretty sure they did not fire Off. Fife.

    I tend to support their actions, but I hold no elusions that they have any respect for me or my rights. If a random cops decides to shoot you in your own home and rape you wife, you should expect to be charged with the crimes and have all other members of law enforcement support the cop.

    Watch a Friday night Dateline sometime. Every week is another story of a guy convicted of killing his wife. Last night's story was the same. The killer wore size 10 shoes, the husband size 12, the DNA at the scene was not husbands, the husband as 170 miles away on a business trip with 100 witnesses and they have tried to convict him three times, he is sitting in prison as we speak. They admit all of the evidence points to someone else but he did cheat on her with another woman, thus he must be guilty.

    They are not soldiers and they do not have the right to force you from your homewithout due process or legal recourse. They use the color of the law to threaten and terrorize people into doing whatever they want. Lawyer, ask first and shut up til he gets there.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
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  13. Deebow

    Deebow Portland Well-Known Member

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    No. They are not.

    If they ever ask say "No Statement, No Poly, No Waiver." (No statement, no polygraph, no waiver of my rights).
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2015
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  14. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Whatever happened to the concept of "Peace Officers"? :s0092:
     
  15. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Here is your peace officer.

    http://survivalinstitute.com/guy-gets-broken-nose-from-friends-of-cops-cops-do-nothing/

    Victim of Violent Road Rage Incident Baffled by Police Response After He Called 911
    4762887_s-219x300.jpg Donald Akers had a really bad day on Mother’s Day. He and his wife, Janet, were driving to place flowers on his mother-in-law’s grave when they became the victims of an apparent road rage incident.

    A driver of a Dodge Ram pickup, who apparently was unhappy with Janet for honking her horn at him when he wandered in to her lane of traffic, followed the Akers in to a parking lot where the driver proceeded to assault Donald with the butt of a gun, breaking teeth and his nose.

    The Akers called 911, police arrived… and then proceeded to act like they were best friends with the man who hit Donald with the gun. Why?

    Because the man who assaulted Donald was an off-duty U.S. Marshall. Janet Akers said,

    “So the police came, and went over directly to them. And were talking to them, laughing, joking around.”

    No charges were immediately pressed.

    And the government wonders why people don’t trust the police? The good old boys network is still securely in place, and this is one of the biggest reasons why police brutality is a growing concern among the U.S. population. It is because these thugs are relatively untouchable.
     
  16. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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  17. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Man Threatens Suicide, Police Kill Him

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...e-police-kill-him.html?source=TDB&via=FB_Page

    Justin Way was in bed with a knife. His girlfriend called a non-emergency number to try to get him into a hospital. Minutes later, cops shot him dead.

    On May 11, Justin Way was drinking and threatening to hurt himself. His father, George Way, said his son was a recovering alcoholic and had been alcohol-free for five weeks.

    “He just lost his job, and he had a setback,” he said.

    Way’s live-in girlfriend, Kaitlyn Christine Lyons, said she’d caught Justin drinking a bottle of vodka, which she took away from him to pour out. She said he was drunk, lying in their bed with a large knife, saying he would hurt himself with it. She called a non-emergency number in an attempt to get her boyfriend to a local St. Augustine, Florida, hospital for help—and told them she did not feel threatened.

    “My brother has been Baker Acted three times because he was threatening to hurt himself so I figured that would happen with Justin,” said Lyons. Florida’s Baker Act allows the involuntary institutionalization of an individual, and it can be initiated by law enforcement officials.

    “The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don’t think he wanted to die.”

    Minutes later, two St. Johns County Sheriff’s deputies, 26-year-old Jonas Carballosa and 32-year-old Kyle Braig, arrived at the home, armed with assault rifles, and told Kaitlyn to wait outside.

    “I thought they were going into war,” she remembered thinking when she first saw the large guns. Within moments, Justin was shot dead.

    George Way said the initial report he received from Detective Mike Smith detailed an incident wherein his officers said they were attacked by Justin with a knife. Way said Smith told him Justin had threatened Kaitlyn. Kaitlyn denies this.

    Denise Way, Justin’s mom, said the detective relayed to her that “they told Justin to drop the knife and he didn’t—so they shot him because ‘That’s what we do.’”

    Denise said Smith then told her about “this new trend in law enforcement now—it’s called suicide by cop.” She said Smith explained “suicide by cop” is when suicidal people provoke the police in an effort to end their own lives.

    She said Smith wouldn’t tell her family where or how many times their son was shot.

    Justin’s parents do not believe their son was a threat, because they think Justin was shot while still lying in bed.

    “If Justin was coming after them with a knife, at 6-foot-4, wouldn’t there be blood splattered all over the room?” George said.

    Way’s parents brought Justin’s mattress to the curb after his death. George says he believes there was a bullet dug out of the bed from a hole found in the middle of it. He also said the blood was contained entirely within the mattress, and that it did not hit the walls or the floor.

    “The only person Justin threatened was himself and I honestly don’t think he wanted to die.”
    In a phone interview with Commander Chuck Mulligan of the St. Johns County Sheriff's Office, The Daily Beast asked if it was standard procedure to bring assault rifles, but not mental health professionals, to a scene where someone is suicidal.

    “If the deputies feel that that is the appropriate weapon system to use, then yes,” said Mulligan.

    If the deputies used tasers and one prong missed, Mulligan said, they might be left in a difficult and potentially dangerous situation.

    “They were in a very tight space within a residence,” he said.

    Mulligan added that the difference between an assault rifle and a handgun would not have affected the outcome in Justin Way’s case.

    “Whether it’s a rifle or not, in many senses, is a non-issue,” he said. “A bullet comes out of a handgun, a bullet comes out of a rifle.”

    This wasn’t the first time that law enforcement in the area had been involved in a fatal shooting. One of the two officers that went into Justin Way’s home, Kyle Braig, was involved in a fatal shooting with a knife-wielding man five months ago. A few days after Way was killed, another suicidal man was injured by St Johns County deputies.

    On Facebook, Jonas Carballosa, the second deputy involved in the Justin Way shooting, once posted the following quote: “Most people respect the badge. Everyone respects the gun.”

    Way’s parents said they do not ever want to call the police again—for anything.

    Kaitlyn Lyons said she hopes the police rethink how guns are used in cases where people are calling about those who are suicidal or seeking help.

    “I think they should come in using other things,” she said. “And I think they definitely need to figure out how to handle suicidal people.”

    UPDATE 10:15 AM: An earlier version of this story implied that Justin Way called a suicide hotline. It was his girlfriend, Kaitlyn Lyons, who made the call. We regret the error.