Poll: AR vs AK Cage Match

[3MTA3]

Just water the gun down and dry it off, then oil.

Hopefully when PSA gets their US manufactured 7.62x39 up and running it will be non corrosive. Brass cases would be nice, but to be price competitive I'm guessing it will be steel.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Just water the gun down and dry it off, then oil.

No thanks, I appreciate the advice. But I'd rather do it the pita method and not drench my gun in water and oils every time. Maybe the mosin.....

 

[3MTA3]

Another question for AK owners: One thing I really like is that parts have standardized dimensions so it's easy to keep spares that can be used on every rifle. It also means that it's possible to cannibalize parts from one AR to keep another even if they are of different makes. Bolt carrier groups, triggers, gas blocks would be examples.

Is this the same with the AK Platform? Can I pull the bolt out of a Romanian AK and use it in a Chinese AK without head spacing or other fitting? Same with other parts like triggers, safeties, etc.? If not, would you be able to easily exchange parts from the same model/manufacturer?

 

[American123]

Another question for AK owners: One thing I really like is that parts have standardized dimensions so it's easy to keep spares that can be used on every rifle. It also means that it's possible to cannibalize parts from one AR to keep another even if they are of different makes. Bolt carrier groups, triggers, gas blocks would be examples.

Is this the same with the AK Platform? Can I pull the bolt out of a Romanian AK and use it in a Chinese AK without head spacing or other fitting? Same with other parts like triggers, safeties, etc.? If not, would you be able to easily exchange parts from the same model/manufacturer?

Nyet! While not impossible, with enough tolerance stacking you may find some parts don't work with other parts, but in some ways the fitment has enough inherent slop that as long as they share the same design specs it should work.

I think the original intent from a military tactics standpoint is to get another rifle from your fallen comrade and not worry about it.

 

[3MTA3]

I think the original intent from a military tactics standpoint is to get another rifle from your fallen comrade and not worry about it.

Following the WW2 Soviet practice of sending unarmed solders into battle with instructions to use the rifle from a casualty. Nothing says "we care" better than not even hiding that you are cannon fodder.

 

[Boboclown]

Hopefully when PSA gets their US manufactured 7.62x39 up and running it will be non corrosive. Brass cases would be nice, but to be price competitive I'm guessing it will be steel.

Steel ammo isn't necessarily corrosive. Its the primers that make the difference, most commercial ammo for it is going to be non-corrosive. Military ammo will be, at least for the Russians anyways.

Another question for AK owners: One thing I really like is that parts have standardized dimensions so it's easy to keep spares that can be used on every rifle. It also means that it's possible to cannibalize parts from one AR to keep another even if they are of different makes. Bolt carrier groups, triggers, gas blocks would be examples.

Is this the same with the AK Platform? Can I pull the bolt out of a Romanian AK and use it in a Chinese AK without head spacing or other fitting? Same with other parts like triggers, safeties, etc.? If not, would you be able to easily exchange parts from the same model/manufacturer?

Short answers; No, and no. You could buy a bunch of bolts and look for ones that'll headspace without work, but that's about it regarding the bolt. When it comes to the 5.56 AKs, there's really no standard with bolts. The rest? Mostly yes.

 

[American123]

Following the WW2 Soviet practice of sending unarmed solders into battle with instructions to use the rifle from a casualty. Nothing says "we care" better than not even hiding that you are cannon fodder.

It's really interesting history to look at the Soviet style of military deployment compared to the American/western style. The Soviets basically said "what are supply lines." The soldiers are seen carrying their 'Great coats' wrapped in a sling around themselves all year because there was no supply line to get them situated when winter came. Par for the course for communist ideals, the masses are expendable so long as it serves a benefit for the cause.

 

[Dr Prepper]

It's really interesting history to look at the Soviet style of military deployment compared to the American/western style. The Soviets basically said "what are supply lines." The soldiers are seen carrying their 'Great coats' wrapped in a sling around themselves all year because there was no supply line to get them situated when winter came. Par for the course for communist ideals, the masses are expendable so long as it serves a benefit for the cause.

"but I being a poor pleab., have only your dreams are me laid bare beneath your feet; tread softy(?) for you tread on your own dreams" ~ "yeets" (and probably also the Clinton's)

 

[3MTA3]

It's really interesting history to look at the Soviet style of military deployment compared to the American/western style. The Soviets basically said "what are supply lines." The soldiers are seen carrying their 'Great coats' wrapped in a sling around themselves all year because there was no supply line to get them situated when winter came. Par for the course for communist ideals, the masses are expendable so long as it serves a benefit for the cause.

"No dumb bastard ever won a war by going out and dying for his country. He won it by making some other dumb bastard die for his country."
General George S Patton

"Hold my Beer"
Joseph Stalin

 

[ma96782]

Quick question for the 7.62x39 crowd: How much of a PIA is corrosive ammo? Do you simply clean after each session and do you need to use anything different than for non corrosive ammo? Or is it just "Nyet! We don't need no stinking girly man unpitted rifle barrels."?

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

The support hand going over works- going under IME not so much. I've been toying with the idea of having a knowledgeable handy smith weld an upright piece to the bolt handle to make it easier to access. But for the $$$ spent I'd be better off getting a better rear sight first. Something like a tech sight, maybe....

I always thought that the op rod "handle" here, was an excellent idea.



No fair.....It's NOT an AK.

Whatever dude. Not to mention the "better" sights.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Ducati_Meister]

The Swiss 550 series is one of my go to guns, though it is quite front heavy, it's built well. I am more inclined to the AR platform but the AK has its own attributes that make it practical too. I'm just an enthusiast, not an operator etc, so I can't really judge on the battle field practicality etc. AKs are fun to shoot as I like to take my WBP Fox AK out along with my Sig 556 and Geissele AR pistol.

 

[Dr Prepper]

Aloha, Mark

"You can't clean out salts with CLP or hoppes." ??? So I'm curious how they clean any of these rifles out in the battle field; just make sure they keep shooting it?
to be clear, I'm not saying he's wrong but you can tell he clearly cares about his rifles soaking the wood and leather with water, I'd at least blow the rifle off with compressed air afterwards and probably heat it up to force the water out. I know Robski isn't the only one who uses this method.
its always been my thought that the salts are on the surface and using wet patches with get pretty much everything out. I'm pretty sure it was a Brownells video I watched that said hoppes will dissolve salts and black powder and basically anything you shoot, that's why its the old standard. And IMO I always thought a little mechanical action was better than just water pressure.
last time I tried windex as IIRC it was iraqveteran8888 who recommended that method. So I took a bottom fed nalgene lab squeeze bottle and shot the winded down the barrel etc. That didn't work it still had some very mino rusting so I cleaned it out as usual later and presto no rust.
maybe next time I'll just try water with the bottle but I hate spraying water everywhere when it doesn't need to be there. Not to mention I won't take my guns out side for all the neighbors to freak out and probably red flag me for "brandishing" or some stupid isht.

 

[AshWilliams]

"You can't clean out salts with CLP or hoppes." ??? So I'm curious how they clean any of these rifles out in the battle field; just make sure they keep shooting it?
to be clear, I'm not saying he's wrong but you can tell he clearly cares about his rifles soaking the wood and leather with water, I'd at least blow the rifle off with compressed air afterwards and probably heat it up to force the water out. I know Robski isn't the only one who uses this method.
its always been my thought that the salts are on the surface and using wet patches with get pretty much everything out. I'm pretty sure it was a Brownells video I watched that said hoppes will dissolve salts and black powder and basically anything you shoot, that's why its the old standard. And IMO I always thought a little mechanical action was better than just water pressure.
last time I tried windex as IIRC it was iraqveteran8888 who recommended that method. So I took a bottom fed nalgene lab squeeze bottle and shot the winded down the barrel etc. That didn't work it still had some very mino rusting so I cleaned it out as usual later and presto no rust.
maybe next time I'll just try water with the bottle but I hate spraying water everywhere when it doesn't need to be there. Not to mention I won't take my guns out side for all the neighbors to freak out and probably red flag me for "brandishing" or some stupid isht.

"Don't mind me neighbor, just watering the Kalashnikov." - Brandon Herrera

 

[ma96782]

"You can't clean out salts with CLP or hoppes." ??? So I'm curious how they clean any of these rifles out in the battle field; just make sure they keep shooting it?
to be clear, I'm not saying he's wrong but you can tell he clearly cares about his rifles soaking the wood and leather with water, I'd at least blow the rifle off with compressed air afterwards and probably heat it up to force the water out. I know Robski isn't the only one who uses this method.
its always been my thought that the salts are on the surface and using wet patches with get pretty much everything out. I'm pretty sure it was a Brownells video I watched that said hoppes will dissolve salts and black powder and basically anything you shoot, that's why its the old standard. And IMO I always thought a little mechanical action was better than just water pressure.
last time I tried windex as IIRC it was iraqveteran8888 who recommended that method. So I took a bottom fed nalgene lab squeeze bottle and shot the winded down the barrel etc. That didn't work it still had some very mino rusting so I cleaned it out as usual later and presto no rust.
maybe next time I'll just try water with the bottle but I hate spraying water everywhere when it doesn't need to be there. Not to mention I won't take my guns out side for all the neighbors to freak out and probably red flag me for "brandishing" or some stupid isht.

There is another video about using Hoppe's #9 or Ballistol (mix 1:1 with water). Anyway, IICR......both work after firing Black Powder or Corrosively primed ammo.

Speaking of shooting/cleaning after using corrosive ammo.
For me......
Yes......I'd also hesitate to completely hose down my firearms. I've also worried about the possible trapped water (between the wooden stock and metal parts).

Hot soapy water is your FRIEND.

So then.....
The trigger parts/action and the attached receiver will get hot water poured in there. Yeah, why not pour some hot water down the bore and gas tube at this point too?

Then again (trying to keep the stock dry)......
Sometimes, I've taken to just running a wet (hot and soapy water) patch on a jag and brushing down the bore (and gas tube). I do it a couple of times. Followed by a brushing with Hoppe's #9 (for the copper jacket fouling). More water......more patches......until I'm happy enough. Dry it off and lastly......oiled patches down the bore and all over the firearm's metal parts (for rust prevention).

Oh.....yes, I take down my bolt and soak it in hot soapy water too. Followed by some brush action. I dry the parts as best I can (blowing on it). The still heated metal seems to dry off quite well. Though there is no harm if I assist it with dry clean patches. And of course, followed with a bit of oily patch action.

Oooops......YES, I also use synthetic grease (el cheap-o-axle grease works too) on the parts that get a lot of rubbing action (not the lugs).

BTW, there is another AK Operator's Union video.....

Note that the first half of the video vs 2nd half of the video (his non-corrosive vs corrosive ammunition cleaning advice).

Anyway.....a lot of people have their own ways of doing things. So......whatever floats your boat.

Aloha, Mark

PS.... as for the battlefield/after-battle cleaning?
LOL.....I also saw a video where the poster just placed his firearm in the stream. YEAH, Yeah, yeah......it's not like you'll be close to a stream after every battle. Though.....some wet patch action (and/or G.I. bore cleaner) sufficed back in the day.

 

[ma96782]

RE : speaking of the oil and grease to lube your AK

Aloha, Mark

PS.....those threads on the end of the barrel/muzzle end.
Yeah....clean off the threads and dry it off. Prior to re-assembly, I use grease, oil, or Anti-Seize Lubricant, on the threads.

The op rod piston end gets a cleaning but is reassembled dry.

 

[AshWilliams]

FWIW: Jim Fuller on maintenance and lubrication. In the beginning he discusses corrosive ammo.

 

[ma96782]

Ooops......Very IMPORTANT! Don't forget to come back, in a day or so, to check for corrosion/rust.

Aloha, Mark

 

[Tony617]

Just curious the North Vietnam and Viet Cong used AK47 which was corrosive ammo. They probably used river water or some other fresh water to rinse their AK's out. Or did they use some other solution to rinse their AK;s out? I know they had two parts in some of their oiler cans one for solvent and one for oil.

 

[3MTA3]

Interesting twist on the mud test. Several mud tests have shown that the AR's tighter tolerances make it more of a sealed system that helps to prevent mud and other debris from getting into the rifle, and the gas system helps to clean out whatever does get inside. The AK, with it's looser tolerances suffers by comparison, so the AR tends to do better in those tests.

Here is another take that introduces sand and then mud through the magazine to test how they hold up to equivalent amounts of material getting into the action. Both did quite well, though the PMAG clone had it's own issues causing failures.