Appeals Court Find Oregon University Gun Ban Invalid

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by drew, Sep 28, 2011.

  1. drew

    drew
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    Good news for students and anyone else who wants to carry on an Oregon campus. It's truly amazing that the OUS couldn't wrap their heads around Oregon's preemption clause. It's really simple. They are not the legislature so they can't make rules related to firearms. The 2nd amendment is mentioned because that was part of the petition. The judges chose not to address that part. This should make 2nd amendment events on campuses livelier.
    Ore. Appeals Court Tosses University Gun Ban - News Story - KTVZ Bend - There's a link to the actual court ruling in the article.
    Of course OUS was disappointed and replied with the expected nonsense about firearms violence:

    I believe this was their alert system:
    gunfreezone.gif
     
  2. chase

    chase
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    This is great news. Laws just hinder the law abiding citizens. Criminals are criminals, because they don't follow the law.
     
  3. chemist

    chemist
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    Now watch the OUS officials waste even more time and public money taking it to the state supremes. They'll lose of course - in another year or so.
    "Delay is the deadliest form of denial."
     
  4. CamoDeafie

    CamoDeafie
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    there was an uproar a few months ago about U of Oregon allowing their security to be armed at all times....this should instigate some more protests from the likes of liberals and anti-gunners, who WILL use the V-tech shootings as "proof we can never allow guns on campus!" even though it was abundantly clear the shooter picked the place because its unarmed.

    EDIT for more content;
    like the NY tech Inst i went to, the Universities around here places reliance on the "blue box" call boxes and is overly dependent on the security to CALL the police for whatever crimes happen. this system is supposed to make it more safer by having obvious "beacons of safety" located all over the campuses where the victims can get to and get help from security, BUT it does not prevent people from say, dragging the victim, driving away, or causing further harm and getting away quickly. furthermore, not every blue box has a security officer in direct line of sight as they are more often busy ticketing illegal/unauthorized parkers.
     
  5. PDXoriginal

    PDXoriginal
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    I carried the entire time I attended classes at PSU and guess what? NOBODY GOT SHOT.
     
  6. glock.40

    glock.40
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    I go to western oregon university, and am so excited to be able to exercise my rights at school.
     
  7. Adam12

    Adam12
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    You haven't been???
     
  8. drew

    drew
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    Their spokeswoman also seemed to indicate they would kick people off campus if they weren't concealed. They were also considering forcing students to sign a statement saying they won't carry a gun before allowing them in classrooms or dorms.

    I don't believe the first is legal. The point the court made is they don't have the authority to regulate firearm possession.

    The second is a cheap attempt to circumvent state law.
     
  9. Stickjockey

    Stickjockey
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    This may be a dumb question, but does this include the community colleges as well?
     
  10. Dave Workman

    Dave Workman
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  11. Don't Sue People Panda

    Don't Sue People Panda
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    Yup, I carried when I was at PSU, it's called concealed for a reason :)
     
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  12. drew

    drew
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    I think it should but I'm not a lawyer. This specifically went after an OAR that applied specifically to the OUS while community colleges are under Department of Community Colleges and Workforce Development. The main thing I saw in the ruling was confirmation that the only part of the state government that can make regulations regarding firearms is the legislature unless they pass a law granting another entity the ability.
     
  13. drew

    drew
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    It shouldn't be a surprise it sucks.

    Keeping guns off our public university campuses | OregonLive.com

    I think the question to ask is "Will arming up among students and faculty reduce safety?" It doesn't. Most people see a drawn pistol as a potential threat. I also find the phrase "arming up" a little loaded.

    Many Federal buildings have metal detectors at the entrance so they can insure no one has a gun. Last time I checked college campuses don't have those. So are the same young adults full of fear when they leave campus and go into the world where there are people legally carrying?

    I didn't think Constitutional rights were a popularity contest.

    I agree the editorial board should go back to school. I didn't realize pointing out that shootings happened in places that had firearm prohibitions was spreading fear. Nice attempt to paint people who carry as paranoid vigilantes. That is fearmongering.

    They fail to take into account the majority of students are under 21 and can't get a concealed handgun license. There is an extremely small number of instances where a licensee has fired a gun in public. I remember reading about a couple in the last few years. I'm sure Floyd Prozanski will be all over the OUS cause though. He says he's "pro-gun".
     
  14. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg
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    Came in to post this, good show
     
  15. Asp

    Asp
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    Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 6:48 AM
    Subject: Campus Safety Update

    Yet...
    Housing code of conduct
    It would make sense if they made up their mind on the issue. Fortunately the state has spoken in favor of liberty.
     
  16. drew

    drew
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    And Ceasefire Oregon weighs in.

    They start off justifying their argument with an emotional appeal and a faulty reasoning. Then they trot out some questionable research and a survey. Then they cap it off with another emotional appeal.

    About what I'd expect from them.

    Student safety: Oregon should ban guns on public college campuses | OregonLive.com

    Their argument fails to take into account the number of students living off-campus who could have them in their private residence before this court decision. I don't know of a university in the OUS where anywhere near a majority of the students live on-campus. Typically, most of students living on campus are younger and this ruling wouldn't allow them to have a gun in their dorm room. Ceasefire also fails to cite the source of their "research".

    I thought the police were issued personal weapons. Personal weapons work well against individuals also using personal weapons. They don't cite a cite a source regarding the police shooting statistics. Average police officer shooting skills can vary greatly depending on training and the amount of range time. Once again, a poorly worded survey question to obtain a desirable results. Change the wording of the question given to campus police chiefs to "allowing students to carry concealed weapons on campus would exacerbate some or all campus killings." and see what the results would be. If I got hit by a drunk driver would I be an expert on drunk driving? I'd say no. Surviving a tragedy makes you a colorful interview but it doesn't make you an expert on the subject.
     
  17. Saw the Elephant

    Saw the Elephant
    Salem, Oregon
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    I sent this out to my friends the day after the decision was announced:

    SPECIAL BULLETIN to my gun totin' friends - This e-letter has come to you today because of a change in the law affecting your rights as a legally armed citizen. You won't see the names of the other recipients of this bulletin, because we carry concealed and live the "stealth existence." Let me know if you want to receive further alerts (e-mail address below).

    I woke up to headlines this morning declaring "Ruling Allows Guns on Campus," "Ban on Campus Firearms Overturned," and "Oregon Court of Appeals Rejects University System's Ban on Guns on Campus."

    Today's Oregonian news story can be found at Oregon Court of Appeals rejects university system's ban on guns on campus | OregonLive.com, but I think that the Eugene Register-Guard did a better job. See the Register-Guard story at Ruling allows guns on campus | The Oregon Court of Appeals strikes down a state administrative rule that bans firearms on OUS property.

    What's this all about? Here's the background:

    In 2009, Jeffrey Maxwell, a 30-year-old student at Western Oregon University who served in the Marines, was carrying a loaded two-bullet derringer in his front pocket. He had a concealed handgun license.

    Maxwell, who also had a folding knife in his pocket, was sitting in the student union doing his homework when officers approached and questioned him. When Maxwell truthfully told officers he had the gun and knife in his pocket and an unloaded rifle in his truck, he was handcuffed and taken to the Monmouth Police station, where he was cited for possessing a firearm in a public building.

    The Polk County district attorney later determined he had not committed a crime and didn't charge him. But a student judicial panel suspended him through the end of the term under a student conduct rule banning the possession or use of firearms and other weapons.

    To re-enroll, Maxwell was ordered to get a mental health evaluation and write a minimum 10-page paper on following the law, accepting responsibility for his actions and "recognizing the impact possession of weapons on college campuses has on others."

    Maxwell appealed the punishment. Oregon Firearms Federation, which paid for a Medford teacher's unsuccessful suit to carry a concealed gun to school, brought suit through its nonprofit corporation, Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, challenging the Oregon University System's administrative rule banning firearms on university campuses.

    The Oregon Court of Appeals' opinion, issued yesterday, can be found at State of Oregon Law Library Digital Search Collection. Some observations:

    1. The opinion doesn't mention Jeffrey Maxwell. The case was about an administrative rule.

    2. The Court of Appeals specifically rejected OFEF's contention that the Oregon Legislature requires public educational institutions to allow concealed handguns. ("We reject the contention that a statutory exception to criminal sanctions for the possession of a handgun in public buildings indicates an intention to require public educational institutions to permit concealed handguns.")

    3. The Court of Appeals found that the University System's administrative rule was "quasi-legislative 'lawmaking,'" and not authorized by the Oregon Legislature. (State law vests sole authority to regulate firearms in the Legislature.)

    4. There was no mention of ORS 166.370(3)(g), which prohibits possession of a firearm on school property by CHL holders unless the firearm is "unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle."

    You can mull over the significance of the Court of Appeals' ruling for yourself. That's why I gave you the link. I don't intend to stop mentioning 166.370(3)(f)'s requirement of "unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle" in my CHL classes, but will keep those students - and you - up to date as the case develops further. The news stories suggest that the University System will appeal to the Oregon Supreme Court, and take other measures to circumvent yesterday's ruling. A battle was won, but the war isn't over.

    WHAT NOW? For now, I don't think it would be a good idea to walk up to your child's middle school police liaison officer and say, "Guess what, officer? I've got a concealed handgun license, I'm carrying a concealed firearm, and there's nothing you can do about it!"

    Stay safe, stay smart.
     
  18. osterr1999

    osterr1999
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    Steve forgets to mention this statement in ORS 166.370: (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to: A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun. There is a specific exemption for carry in public buildings by people the possess a CHL. That means that I can carry in any school I choose, as long as it is public.
     
  19. Saw the Elephant

    Saw the Elephant
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    I had an e-mail dialogue with Dawn Phillips, of Representative Kim Thatcher's office, on this part of the statute. She, too, thought that an exemption from the criminal sanction under ORS 166.370 (possession of a firearm in a public building, i.e., a school) was found under ORS 166.370(3)(d): "A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun."

    However ORS 166.370(3)(g), requiring that your gun be unloaded and locked in your car, is a specific qualifier. In law, the specific controls the general. Here's part of that e-mail:

    …(3)(g) is a specific qualifier that modifies the general exemption. The specific rules the general, or, as is taught in law schools, "generalia specialibus non derogant" (the general does not detract from the specific). This is a basic principle of statutory interpretation.

    Dawn's reasoning is not unique. It is found on internet gun forums, and espoused by many individuals who are not law-trained and desire to bend the statute to what they want, i.e., that CHL holders can go armed on school property. But that is not what (3)(g) says. I address this issue in my classes, and here's Steve's maxim: "Try using that legal argument with the arresting officer and see where it gets you."

    Stay safe, and try not to become a test case.
     
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  20. linflas

    linflas
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    Very informative, thanks for the detailed opinion Saw. Yeah, I would not like to be a test case.
     

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