Appeals Court Find Oregon University Gun Ban Invalid

[drew]

Good news for students and anyone else who wants to carry on an Oregon campus. It's truly amazing that the OUS couldn't wrap their heads around Oregon's preemption clause. It's really simple. They are not the legislature so they can't make rules related to firearms. The 2nd amendment is mentioned because that was part of the petition. The judges chose not to address that part. This should make 2nd amendment events on campuses livelier.
<broken link removed> - There's a link to the actual court ruling in the article.

The Oregon Court of Appeals ruled Wednesday that the Oregon University System cannot ban guns on college campuses.
A three-judge panel of the Court of Appeals ruled that only the Legislature can regulate the possession of firearms.
The judges did not evaluate whether the gun ban violates the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which protects gun rights.

Of course OUS was disappointed and replied with the expected nonsense about firearms violence:

OUS chancellor George Pernsteiner said, “We are disappointed in the ruling of the Court in this case and will consider our options. Our greatest concern is for the safety of our students and the entire campus community. Whether accidental or intentional, firearms violence continues to hurt or kill thousands of Americans each year in this country. We will continue to review the opinion in order to consider future options to protect the safety of our students, faculty, staff, and visitors.

“The OUS campuses have worked over the past few years at a high level of diligence to put in place alert systems that will notify students and all campus members of any potential threat to safety. These systems and actions will continue to be in place and we will review if there are additional actions we should take to ensure that we are protecting students and their learning environment.”

I believe this was their alert system:
View attachment 177983

Read More

 

[chase]

This is great news. Laws just hinder the law abiding citizens. Criminals are criminals, because they don't follow the law.

 

[chemist]

Now watch the OUS officials waste even more time and public money taking it to the state supremes. They'll lose of course - in another year or so.
"Delay is the deadliest form of denial."

 

[CamoDeafie]

there was an uproar a few months ago about U of Oregon allowing their security to be armed at all times....this should instigate some more protests from the likes of liberals and anti-gunners, who WILL use the V-tech shootings as "proof we can never allow guns on campus!" even though it was abundantly clear the shooter picked the place because its unarmed.

EDIT for more content;
like the NY tech Inst i went to, the Universities around here places reliance on the "blue box" call boxes and is overly dependent on the security to CALL the police for whatever crimes happen. this system is supposed to make it more safer by having obvious "beacons of safety" located all over the campuses where the victims can get to and get help from security, BUT it does not prevent people from say, dragging the victim, driving away, or causing further harm and getting away quickly. furthermore, not every blue box has a security officer in direct line of sight as they are more often busy ticketing illegal/unauthorized parkers.

 

[Bam]

I carried the entire time I attended classes at PSU and guess what? NOBODY GOT SHOT.

 

[glock.40]

I go to western oregon university, and am so excited to be able to exercise my rights at school.

 

[Adam12]

You haven't been???

 

[drew]

Their spokeswoman also seemed to indicate they would kick people off campus if they weren't concealed. They were also considering forcing students to sign a statement saying they won't carry a gun before allowing them in classrooms or dorms.

I don't believe the first is legal. The point the court made is they don't have the authority to regulate firearm possession.

The second is a cheap attempt to circumvent state law.

 

[Stickjockey]

This may be a dumb question, but does this include the community colleges as well?

 

[Dave Workman]

WA universities should study Oregon ruling on campus CCW

<broken link removed>

 

[Don't Sue People Panda]

Yup, I carried when I was at PSU, it's called concealed for a reason

 

[drew]

This may be a dumb question, but does this include the community colleges as well?

I think it should but I'm not a lawyer. This specifically went after an OAR that applied specifically to the OUS while community colleges are under Department of Community Colleges and Workforce Development. The main thing I saw in the ruling was confirmation that the only part of the state government that can make regulations regarding firearms is the legislature unless they pass a law granting another entity the ability.

 

[drew]

It shouldn't be a surprise it sucks.

<broken link removed>

But while the decision is a legal lock, it is unsatisfying for many who worry about the quality of life on campus. College communities have seen carnage in recent years, whether in Illinois or Virginia, and yet the question persists: Will arming up among students and faculty ensure safety?

It will not. A drawn pistol in self-defense or in the face of perceived threat is as much the beginning of a gunfight among amateurs as it is an effective signal to desist.

I think the question to ask is "Will arming up among students and faculty reduce safety?" It doesn't. Most people see a drawn pistol as a potential threat. I also find the phrase "arming up" a little loaded.

Oregon is an overwhelmingly pro-gun state, a proud heritage that needs protection. But not all public buildings are created equal.

College classrooms, auditoriums, dormitories -- all should remain sanctuaries for learning and experience at the crucial moment of young adulthood. The ability to freely engage and learn without fear seems a minimal requirement for a truly productive ethos. Athletic stadiums, meanwhile, should feel as safe as they are crowded.

It is illegal for any civilian to bring a firearm into a federal building -- a sane requirement. Guns, even when registered as concealed weapons to carry, should likewise be banned from our public university campuses.

Many Federal buildings have metal detectors at the entrance so they can insure no one has a gun. Last time I checked college campuses don't have those. So are the same young adults full of fear when they leave campus and go into the world where there are people legally carrying?

A team from Sam Houston State University's College of Criminal Justice surveyed college students in Texas and Washington State on the subject of guns. It found most were uncomfortable with the idea of concealed weapons on campus. Only 10 percent of Texas students and 8 percent of Washington students reported being "very comfortable" with concealed guns in their midst.

I didn't think Constitutional rights were a popularity contest.

We're with the students. Those who argue gun-toting criminals seek and exploit the defenseless in gun-free spaces spread fear, not light. While mortal danger can lurk just about anywhere, college is a time for learning and exploring -- not defending, not shooting, not arming up for the feared next bad thing.

I agree the editorial board should go back to school. I didn't realize pointing out that shootings happened in places that had firearm prohibitions was spreading fear. Nice attempt to paint people who carry as paranoid vigilantes. That is fearmongering.

They fail to take into account the majority of students are under 21 and can't get a concealed handgun license. There is an extremely small number of instances where a licensee has fired a gun in public. I remember reading about a couple in the last few years. I'm sure Floyd Prozanski will be all over the OUS cause though. He says he's "pro-gun".

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Came in to post this, good show

 

[Asp]

Wed, Oct 5, 2011 at 6:48 AM
Subject: Campus Safety Update

Dear PSU community:

The Oregon Court of Appeals last week overturned a long-standing administrative ban of firearms at Oregon's public universities, ruling that such authority must come from the Legislature, not from Oregon University System policy. The state Board of Higher Education is reviewing the court decision to determine next steps.

I want to assure you that we remain committed to keeping Portland State University a safe place to learn. Firearms and weapons continue to be prohibited by law in buildings across campus, unless that person has a valid concealed weapons permit. We will continue to vigorously enforce that law. If anyone on campus sees an individual with a weapon or feels threatened by another individual, they should contact the Campus Public Safety Office. As always, dial 911 for an emergency or 503-725-4407 for non-emergencies.

Wim Wiewel, President
Portland State University

Yet...
<broken link removed>

2.05 Firearms and Weapons

1. a. Possession, use, or sale of any incendiary, explosive, firearm, or destructive device is not permitted. At no time will live ammunition of any type be permitted in or on university premises.

b. Any weapons, including but not limited to firearms, BB guns, bows and arrows, martial arts weapons, paint guns, and any items that are a reasonable facsimile of such a weapon are prohibited within the halls.

c. Possession of a weapon used for instructional programs is not permitted. This regulation does not apply to law enforcement officials acting in performance of their duties or to regular equipment used in the university's maintenance or instruction programs.

2. Exploding or possessing fireworks is prohibited.

3. Any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slingshot, metal knuckles or similar instrument or a knife with a blade longer than 4 inches, the use of which could inflict injury upon a person or property are prohibited. Kitchen knives will be treated as exceptions to this policy when used as food preparation tools.

4. Failure to report to campus security and/or residence hall personnel the presence of an unlawful weapon, explosive or incendiary device, when the presence of such weapon or device is known or reasonably suspected is a violation of the rules and regulations of the University.

5. Reporting the false presence of an unlawful weapon, explosive or incendiary device with the intent to mislead or deceive is prohibited.

It would make sense if they made up their mind on the issue. Fortunately the state has spoken in favor of liberty.

 

[drew]

And Ceasefire Oregon weighs in.

They start off justifying their argument with an emotional appeal and a faulty reasoning. Then they trot out some questionable research and a survey. Then they cap it off with another emotional appeal.

About what I'd expect from them.

Student safety: Oregon should ban guns on public college campuses | OregonLive.com

Guns on college campuses pose a significant risk to college students. Research shows that gun-owning college students are more likely than other students to engage in risky behavior (including binge drinking), use cocaine or crack, be arrested for a DUI, vandalize property and get in trouble with police. Rather than offering a measure of protection, gun ownership among students is associated with behaviors that are likely to put the owners and others at risk for injury. A drunken college party is a risky place; a drunken college party with a loaded gun is much more dangerous.

Suicide is another major risk that guns pose to college students. More than 1,000 college students commit suicide each year, and an additional 24,000 attempts are made. Last spring, the University of Oregon's Daily Emerald reported that 55 percent of college students consider committing suicide ("Learning to cope," Oregon Daily Emerald, April 22, 2011).
Restricting access to lethal means significantly reduces the risk of impulsive suicide. Nine out of 10 people who survive a suicide attempt will not die by suicide later in life. But if a gun is used in a suicide attempt, more than 90 percent of the time it is fatal, compared with a 3 percent fatality rate for suicide attempts by drug overdose. Some campus gun owners may be well-trained and responsible, but a friend or roommate's gun can be as lethal as one's own. Keeping guns off campus gives students time to reconsider.

Their argument fails to take into account the number of students living off-campus who could have them in their private residence before this court decision. I don't know of a university in the OUS where anywhere near a majority of the students live on-campus. Typically, most of students living on campus are younger and this ruling wouldn't allow them to have a gun in their dorm room. Ceasefire also fails to cite the source of their "research".

Personal weapons do not provide meaningful protection against the horrific school shootings that have grabbed headlines in recent years. Reacting under the extreme stress of a school shooting, the civilian shooter poses a grave threat to students and staff, who can be caught in the crossfire. Even trained police officers, on average, hit their intended targets less than 20 percent of the time. In a survey of more than 400 campus police chiefs, 86 percent of them disagreed or strongly disagreed that "allowing students to carry concealed weapons on campus would prevent some or all campus killings." That opinion is shared by Colin Goddard, a student survivor of the 2007 Virginia Tech shooting, who experienced firsthand the chaos of a campus shooting.

I thought the police were issued personal weapons. Personal weapons work well against individuals also using personal weapons. They don't cite a cite a source regarding the police shooting statistics. Average police officer shooting skills can vary greatly depending on training and the amount of range time. Once again, a poorly worded survey question to obtain a desirable results. Change the wording of the question given to campus police chiefs to "allowing students to carry concealed weapons on campus would exacerbate some or all campus killings." and see what the results would be. If I got hit by a drunk driver would I be an expert on drunk driving? I'd say no. Surviving a tragedy makes you a colorful interview but it doesn't make you an expert on the subject.

 

[Saw the Elephant]

I sent this out to my friends the day after the decision was announced:

SPECIAL BULLETIN to my gun totin' friends - This e-letter has come to you today because of a change in the law affecting your rights as a legally armed citizen. You won't see the names of the other recipients of this bulletin, because we carry concealed and live the "stealth existence." Let me know if you want to receive further alerts (e-mail address below).

I woke up to headlines this morning declaring "Ruling Allows Guns on Campus," "Ban on Campus Firearms Overturned," and "Oregon Court of Appeals Rejects University System's Ban on Guns on Campus."

Today's Oregonian news story can be found at Oregon Court of Appeals rejects university system's ban on guns on campus | OregonLive.com, but I think that the Eugene Register-Guard did a better job. See the Register-Guard story at <broken link removed> .

What's this all about? Here's the background:

In 2009, Jeffrey Maxwell, a 30-year-old student at Western Oregon University who served in the Marines, was carrying a loaded two-bullet derringer in his front pocket. He had a concealed handgun license.

Maxwell, who also had a folding knife in his pocket, was sitting in the student union doing his homework when officers approached and questioned him. When Maxwell truthfully told officers he had the gun and knife in his pocket and an unloaded rifle in his truck, he was handcuffed and taken to the Monmouth Police station, where he was cited for possessing a firearm in a public building.

The Polk County district attorney later determined he had not committed a crime and didn't charge him. But a student judicial panel suspended him through the end of the term under a student conduct rule banning the possession or use of firearms and other weapons.

To re-enroll, Maxwell was ordered to get a mental health evaluation and write a minimum 10-page paper on following the law, accepting responsibility for his actions and "recognizing the impact possession of weapons on college campuses has on others."

Maxwell appealed the punishment. Oregon Firearms Federation, which paid for a Medford teacher's unsuccessful suit to carry a concealed gun to school, brought suit through its nonprofit corporation, Oregon Firearms Educational Foundation, challenging the Oregon University System's administrative rule banning firearms on university campuses.

The Oregon Court of Appeals' opinion, issued yesterday, can be found at State of Oregon Law Library Digital Search Collection. Some observations:

1. The opinion doesn't mention Jeffrey Maxwell. The case was about an administrative rule.

2. The Court of Appeals specifically rejected OFEF's contention that the Oregon Legislature requires public educational institutions to allow concealed handguns. ("We reject the contention that a statutory exception to criminal sanctions for the possession of a handgun in public buildings indicates an intention to require public educational institutions to permit concealed handguns.")

3. The Court of Appeals found that the University System's administrative rule was "quasi-legislative 'lawmaking,'" and not authorized by the Oregon Legislature. (State law vests sole authority to regulate firearms in the Legislature.)

4. There was no mention of ORS 166.370(3)(g), which prohibits possession of a firearm on school property by CHL holders unless the firearm is "unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle."

You can mull over the significance of the Court of Appeals' ruling for yourself. That's why I gave you the link. I don't intend to stop mentioning 166.370(3)(f)'s requirement of "unloaded and locked in a motor vehicle" in my CHL classes, but will keep those students - and you - up to date as the case develops further. The news stories suggest that the University System will appeal to the Oregon Supreme Court, and take other measures to circumvent yesterday's ruling. A battle was won, but the war isn't over.

WHAT NOW? For now, I don't think it would be a good idea to walk up to your child's middle school police liaison officer and say, "Guess what, officer? I've got a concealed handgun license, I'm carrying a concealed firearm, and there's nothing you can do about it!"

Stay safe, stay smart.

 

[osterr1999]

Steve forgets to mention this statement in ORS 166.370: (3) Subsection (1) of this section does not apply to: A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun. There is a specific exemption for carry in public buildings by people the possess a CHL. That means that I can carry in any school I choose, as long as it is public.

 

[Saw the Elephant]

I had an e-mail dialogue with Dawn Phillips, of Representative Kim Thatcher's office, on this part of the statute. She, too, thought that an exemption from the criminal sanction under ORS 166.370 (possession of a firearm in a public building, i.e., a school) was found under ORS 166.370(3)(d): "A person who is licensed under ORS 166.291 and 166.292 to carry a concealed handgun."

However ORS 166.370(3)(g), requiring that your gun be unloaded and locked in your car, is a specific qualifier. In law, the specific controls the general. Here's part of that e-mail:

...(3)(g) is a specific qualifier that modifies the general exemption. The specific rules the general, or, as is taught in law schools, "generalia specialibus non derogant" (the general does not detract from the specific). This is a basic principle of statutory interpretation.

Dawn's reasoning is not unique. It is found on internet gun forums, and espoused by many individuals who are not law-trained and desire to bend the statute to what they want, i.e., that CHL holders can go armed on school property. But that is not what (3)(g) says. I address this issue in my classes, and here's Steve's maxim: "Try using that legal argument with the arresting officer and see where it gets you."

Stay safe, and try not to become a test case.

 

[linflas]

Very informative, thanks for the detailed opinion Saw. Yeah, I would not like to be a test case.