Annealing - What Works Well

[Snip]

I don't do a lot of bottleneck cartridges, but there will come a time. Which annealing system do you use and what are the pros and cons.

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[Member 34319]

I've been loading 223/556 cases for years. Some of these cases have 5-10 reloads through them, maybe more.

Never even considered buying an annealer.

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

Snip, you can research annealing at forum.accurateshooter.com and believe it or not at ampAnnealing.com the people who make AMP machines which are induction based.

There are torch machines like Benchsource and Giraud. where you use a compound called tempilac to adjust the flame and duration.

Salt bath machines but you will have to dig out info on those on your own.

and Induction machines. whether you build it on your own from a kit or buy it from AMP.

I recommend AMP mark II with Aztec mode. Aztec mode, named for the sacrifice of one case will provide you a setting for all the cases that match your sample. Very precise and makes shooting multiple calibers very easy.
Sacrifice? The aztec mode "Analyze" will heat a case beyond failure to determine the best settings for heat.

The AMP machine needs custom pilots that control the depth of the cartridge. Several vendors sell them.

I have pilots for .223, 6BR, 308, 300 WM, and even 338-378 Weatherby mag. For my competition rounds, I anneal after every firing to keep the brass soft so it can be resized, expanded, then fired. Some people have reported success with annealing every other firing. I prefer to maintain consistency. Annealing keeps the neck tension consistent and on magnum cases can prevent neck rupture or at least postpone it.

So why did I recommend checking out AMPannealingcom? They posted research on all the methods and provided it for all to consider. It is a college course in metallurgy.

AMP machines are expensive at $1395 plus $20-$30 for the pilots. I would just add that the classified section here at at forum.accurateshooter.com list machines for sale and they always sell fast.

Good luck

 

[2506]

Lots of good info here:

The Art and Science of Annealing

6mmBR.com is the best guide for 6mm BR Benchrest precision shooting, complete with 6BR FAQ, Reloading Data, Shooter Message Boards, Reader Polls, and Photo Gallery. Match event calendar and rifle competition accuracy training tips. Equipment reviews (.243 bullets, 30BR cartridge, 6mm Norma...

www.6mmbr.com

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

6mmBR.com & forum.accurateshooter.com are essentially the same website. They left the 6mmBR portal open but expanded the site to reflect all the accurate shooting cartridges. There are several articles including annealing that are worth reading.

 

[Stomper]

Here's a video I made showing what I use... Anealeez at Annealeez |

 

[Snip]

Here's a video I made showing what I use... Anealeez at Annealeez |

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to hear from users what was their experience with using the different types of annealing equipment. I take it you're a happy customer of Annealeaze. I really like the fully automated setup.

 

[P7M13]

If you don't process a lot of bottlenecked cartridges, the manual method is best.
If you plan on doing a lot of production, the Giraud is considered desirable.
Saw a Buffalo Arms annealer at a fellow NWFAs house the other day. Those are awesome.

 

[Snip]

Snip, you can research annealing at forum.accurateshooter.com and believe it or not at ampAnnealing.com the people who make AMP machines which are induction based.

There are torch machines like Benchsource and Giraud. where you use a compound called tempilac to adjust the flame and duration.

Salt bath machines but you will have to dig out info on those on your own.

and Induction machines. whether you build it on your own from a kit or buy it from AMP.

I recommend AMP mark II with Aztec mode. Aztec mode, named for the sacrifice of one case will provide you a setting for all the cases that match your sample. Very precise and makes shooting multiple calibers very easy.
Sacrifice? The aztec mode "Analyze" will heat a case beyond failure to determine the best settings for heat.

The AMP machine needs custom pilots that control the depth of the cartridge. Several vendors sell them.

I have pilots for .223, 6BR, 308, 300 WM, and even 338-378 Weatherby mag. For my competition rounds, I anneal after every firing to keep the brass soft so it can be resized, expanded, then fired. Some people have reported success with annealing every other firing. I prefer to maintain consistency. Annealing keeps the neck tension consistent and on magnum cases can prevent neck rupture or at least postpone it.

So why did I recommend checking out AMPannealingcom? They posted research on all the methods and provided it for all to consider. It is a college course in metallurgy.

AMP machines are expensive at $1395 plus $20-$30 for the pilots. I would just add that the classified section here at at forum.accurateshooter.com list machines for sale and they always sell fast.

Good luck

So it seems like you're a happy Amp customer. Is there a way to automate the Amp machine?

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

So it seems like you're a happy Amp customer. Is there a way to automate the Amp machine?

Yes you can automate the machine,
Check out this video from a fellow shooter:

I don't use the AMP automated setup.
The time to anneal is 3-4 sec so it goes pretty fast. I have a cheap Lee press with a decapping die next to my annealer so I can decap, anneal, and dump in a pan very quickly.

My weatherby brass is $5 per case and I was only getting 2 firings before the cases started cracking. Since annealing, the necks stay pliable

 

[thorborg]

I do mine by hand as needed.
It was no big deal when I started and still is.
After reading similar questions and answers for decades, it is my opinion my method is not for everyone.
As a back story though. I learned metal working, tempering and hardening thorough books, trial and error, and desire to learn starting with an old barbecue and a hair dryer as a forge set up, so when it came to annealing cartridges, I knew what was what, and what to expect.
Without that experience, I still feel as long as you have a reasonable amount of mechanical ability and desire it is still no big deal to do it by hand. Of coarse you'll have some wastage in the beginning so start with range pickups you don't want till you work out your particular technique. Not all your brass will need annealing frequently, depending on load, caliber, and the process you use.
If it is not fun but a chore for you, get a machine.

 

[Stomper]

Thanks for the reply. I was hoping to hear from users what was their experience with using the different types of annealing equipment. I take it you're a happy customer of Annealeaze. I really like the fully automated setup.

No complaints!

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

Here's another factor to consider, neck turning, not trimming length but turning the neck on a mini lathe to reduce thickness. This is a step competition shooters do to make the thickness uniform or remove donuts from resizing/shaping wildcat brass.

Different neck thicknesses (best measured with a ball micrometer) need different levels of heat to be annealed at the ideal temperature. Automated annealing makes this easy. especially with Aztec mode. Send one to the gods and the rest will benefit from that sacrifice.

I keep brass separated in batches and have anneal settings for each batch. I list the neck thickness, and the resulting anneal code on each box.

 

[P7M13]

@Whisky Tahoe , thanks for the link to AMP -- tons of great information there.

My weatherby brass is $5 per case and I was only getting 2 firings before the cases started cracking. Since annealing, the necks stay pliable

I can attest to that, but I do it by hand in low light on a mandrel turned by a drill motor.

Here's another factor to consider, neck turning, not trimming length but turning the neck on a mini lathe to reduce thickness. This is a step competition shooters do to make the thickness uniform or remove donuts from resizing/shaping wildcat brass.

Essential if you are resizing brass to another caliber. For example, making 7mm-08 brass from 308 stock, or making wildcats. Neck turning and annealing are critical.

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

There's a Mark 1 with AZTEC for sale with pilots at forum.accurateshooter.com

You are being redirected...

I'd wait for a Mark II but that's me. Keep researching and consider trying less expensive methods first.
They do work.

AMP just saves time for those willing to pay the entrance fee.

 

[Spitpatch]

Forming .256 Winchester brass from .357's is quite a step down. When I "embarked" (actually sucked in like a bee to a carnivorous plant) on the .256 journey, fortunately my gun came with graduated forming dies, but I knew I should anneal for best durability and toward case mortality reduction during forming.

This is the only smokeless cartridge for which I do annealing. I also anneal blackpowder rifle brass because of the work needed on necks there. ( I do employ neck-turning on the .25 Bullberry and my own .25 PPC.) I cannot justify an expensive piece of equipment for it. I literally stumbled on a method that works quite perfectly: even rotation and consistent heat levels achieved.

The standard manual method of heating with a handheld torch on cases standing in a shallow bath of water (Barsness and others have since indicated the bath may not be necessary), required a tray. I grabbed my trusty aluminum ice tray off the loading bench (used for a parts-catcher during gun disassembly), and set it on the coffee table with the 1/2" of water in it. Virgin .357 case as prospective victim (memories of torturing insects with a Cracker Jack magnifying glass came to mind).

I absolutely could not achieve even rotation and heating of the neck and shoulder...until about Case Number Five: I inadvertently bumped the corner of the tray a bit. The old tray with a "perch belly" bottom on it rotated smoothly on the table top as if on ball-bearings. Refinement of the procedure (proper amount of "bump", rotations and torch distance) took very few more tries.

I'm on about batch (of 100) number 7 or 8 now (did a couple batches for other .256 loonies), and case mortality in forming is zero. Case life VERY good (for a .256 that is saying something). The blackpowder brass likewise.

It is not a gadget. It has no dials or digital readout. It is not expensive. For my limited application it absolutely does work.

 

[flashpan]

I am not an old hand at annealing but there is no question properly annealed cases will yield better ES and SD's. I have set up and used two torch annealers in the last 6 months. Giraud and Benchsource. I found both will do a good job once you spend the time adjusting and testing. Giraud...high quality machine that once set will auto anneal several hundred cases in a short time. Uses a single torch like Annealeze and Mikes annealers. You do have to buy add wheels if you switch to cases that are bigger dia. (like a switch between 308 and Magnum cases). Benchsource usually uses two torches and must be feed by hand...about 12 at a time. Very high quality machine with great controls. I prefer the Benchsource because I believe the two torch system is more consistent and faster ... around 4.5 seconds depending on case. No need to buy more parts for other cases. I use a BBQ propane tank with dual hoses rather than the small propane bottles. There are very good u tube videos for all the machines. Benchsource is about $75 more than Giraud brand new I believe.
No question, if I had the money Whiskey Tahoe has, I'd be using an AMP. The best possible scenario would be to have Whiskey Tahoe just anneal our cases for a small fee. I'm sure he has a bit more time on his hands now.
I've decided to keep the Benchsource unit and sell my Giraud. Send me a PM if you want more detail.

 

[Whisky Tahoe]

I am not an old hand at annealing but there is no question properly annealed cases will yield better ES and SD's. I have set up and used two torch annealers in the last 6 months. Giraud and Benchsource. I found both will do a good job once you spend the time adjusting and testing. Giraud...high quality machine that once set will auto anneal several hundred cases in a short time. Uses a single torch like Annealeze and Mikes annealers. You do have to buy add wheels if you switch to cases that are bigger dia. (like a switch between 303 and Magnum cases). Benchsource usually uses two torches and must be feed by hand...about 12 at a time. Very high quality machine with great controls. I prefer the Benchsource because I believe the two torch system is more consistent and faster ... around 4.5 seconds depending on case. No need to buy more parts for other cases. I use a BBQ propane tank with dual hoses rather than the small propane bottles. There are very good u tube videos for all the machines. Benchsource is about $75 more than Giraud brand new I believe.
No question, if I had the money Whiskey Tahoe has, I'd be using an AMP. The best possible scenario would be to have Whiskey Tahoe just anneal our cases for a small fee. I'm sure he has a bit more time on his hands now.
I've decided to keep the Benchsource unit and sell my Giraud. Send me a PM if you want more detail.

Thanks Flashpan, I am glad you replied because you are one heck of a shooter and clearly have the gas method down. Did you use tempilac to get calibrated?

While I am not ready to start annealing for the masses, there are services that offer annealing along with other prep steps. 20 cents per case seemed to be the going rate. Adds up but can make a lot of fiscal sense on expensive brass which tends to be lower volume anyway.

 

[flashpan]

I did use tempilac to calibrate temp and time for both machines, but honestly found it to be less than reliable. However using the case color change along with the tempilac I found the sweet spot. Now need to shoot more X's!

 

[Lilhigbee]

Here is a link to my thread on my journey through annealing. Skip to post #29 for a video of how I do it. This works well if you just want to get it done without a big investment in equipment. Some good information from others in the thread too.
Annealing is like reloading, you can be as anal about it was you want, but in reality it is pretty easy to get perfectly satisfactory results without making a lifetime study of the process.
Brass forming/annealing question