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And I got this OTHER rifle...

Discussion in 'Curio & Relic Discussion' started by STUKA, Oct 31, 2015.

  1. STUKA

    STUKA Close to Milwaukie Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Muzzleloader,marked W.Collins on the barrel and "receiver" (I don't know if this technically has a receiver..)

    I know NOTHING about these,except it is old,and not a cheapo reproduction.And I am purely speculating that it is British..

    Was TOLD it was Civil War era by the previous owner,but I bought it purely for the esthetics as a wall hanger.Might sell it though,so I need to know what I'm selling!

    Octagon barrel,missing the part where the percussion cap(?) goes..
    Wood is pretty good,has a few cracks here and there.It has a pretty fancy carved buttstock.

    Is it a matchlock,flintlock,musket,rifle,club,or???

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  2. ditchtiger

    ditchtiger In the sticks, Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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  3. Stomper

    Stomper Oceania Rising White Is The New Brown Silver Supporter

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    Don't think it's a matchlock... It has a simple hammer.

    Don't think it's a flintlock... Simple hammer and no flash pan.

    Looks like a percussion cap ignition system. Could definately be Civil War era..
     
  4. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    A lot of these vintage black powder guns were converted to use a percussion cap.
    Maybe that's why it's missing some pieces.
    The flint to cap conversions were sometimes a kitchen table affair.
     
  5. STUKA

    STUKA Close to Milwaukie Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Excellent information..Thank you,guys!
     
  6. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    It is an 1840's era back-action lock percussion rifle - never was a flintlock of any kind. This style of lock became popular on the Continent [Europe, that is, not USA] around that time as the percussion lock was simpler to make from the component POV than a flinter, and the more compact and aesthetic back-action lock was the result. The heavy barrel, short stock forend and single under-barrel ram-rod pipe are indicative of the so-called 'plains rifles' of the era of the Hawken rifle, however, apart from the fact that my grandfather was W. Collins [no relation] I can't tell you much more about it. I suppect that is is between .45 and .54cal - typical of the genre, but unless you take the barrel out of the stock to show the proof marks - if there ARE any - then we can't tell you much more about it. The set trigger is a nice touch - I assume that you know how to use it?

    tac
     
  7. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    I was going to say that the fine craftsmanship of the action and the raised cheekpiece make this fine old gun more than an 'old clunker' by any means. Incidentally, the lack of a patchbox is often significant. I strongly suppect that W.Collins was actually the vendor, rather than the maker - his name does not appear in 'The Plains Rifle' by Charles E Hanson, one of THE defining books on the subject.

    Best you take some pics of the muzzle, do some measuring, too, OAL, barrel.

    In spite of the odd angle and missing bit of the image - the only part that I can't detect is the nipple. Jim over in the Rifle shoppe can fix that up for you. Tell him I sent you.

    And BTW, have you actually checked that its is UNLOADED - and I'm deadly serious.

    tac
     
  8. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    PS - The British, having a long history in the islands, nevertheless have a noticeable lack of plains of any kind, and this rifle is most definitely NOT intended for use in the UK - no buffalo, y'see. Well, not for the last 100,000 years, that is.

    tac
     
  9. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    https://archive.org/stream/gunmaker00satt/gunmaker00satt_djvu.txt

    Above is a list of American gunmakers - might be of some use to some of you.

    Mr W Collins is NOT there, though. He might just be a nice English name applied to the gun by the original Belgian maker - just a thought. That is, if it IS Belgian, as I suppect.

    tac
     
  10. STUKA

    STUKA Close to Milwaukie Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    WOW! Thanks a bunch Tac!
    To possibly answer a few questions,I took some more pictures..

    There is a "box" in the buttstock.Don't know if that is what you are referring to as a "patchbox" or not?
    The barrel has NO proof mark that I can find,even when disassembled and looking with a jewelers loupe.And I have no idea which "nipple" you are talking about.

    The triggers are neat,and I did figure out how to use them.Talk about a ight trigger,JEEEZ.
    Anyway,thank you for the assistance.Im going to try to figure out a value and get it sold.

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  11. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Patchbox - there are MILLIONS of different kinds - guns can be identified by maker by the shape and form and style of the patchbox. Some are simply sliding wood, others more ornate,
    like this one -
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    Percussion lock with nipple -
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    The hammer, usually called a 'cock' is resting on a nipple protector - this is my 1861 Artillery carbine, usually called a Musketoon'.
    1430.jpg

    tac

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  12. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Webmaster - WHY can't I edit my text anymore? That's why I've had to write four posts instead of one.

    tac
     
  13. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    BTW, Stuka - you STILL haven't checked to see if it is loaded - old guns like this one, handed around, are VERY likely to be loaded, and black powder has no shelf-life limit.

    Put a piece of dowel down that barrel, and compare it with the outside length - please do it now, just for me, OK?

    tac
     
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  14. STUKA

    STUKA Close to Milwaukie Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    Seems to be unloaded..Dowel is the same length inside and out.
     
  15. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Phew.

    Thanks.

    tac
     
  16. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The recent site update has caused this problem for some folks (including me). There is a fix, probably best to tag @Joe Link to walk you through it.
     
    tac likes this.
  17. Joe Link

    Joe Link Portland, OR Well-Known Member Staff Member Lifetime Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    tac and etrain16 like this.
  18. STUKA

    STUKA Close to Milwaukie Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    An update for anyone interested-I talked to Joe at the Gun Works in Springfield.He says according to his books,its probably/possibly made by a William Collins who worked in Portland 1852,Olympia,WA 1853,and Crescent City,Ca all through the 1860s
    Or,2 other W.Collins ,in W.Virginia or Colorado.
    I think it's really cool there is a long shot chance it was made in Oregon!!
     
  19. tac

    tac UK, Oregon and Ontario. Well-Known Member

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    Me, I'd just love to own a gun that was made in Oregon, and, of course, since it's an old muzzle loader, here in yUK there is nothing to stop me from doing so. A good friend in Springfield recently made me a beautiful patch knife, and I've been looking for a good reason to use it.........hmmmm, how well a muzzle-loader and a patch knife go together.........;)

    Best to all here.

    tac, stuck in yUK