Almost 100 M1911A1s Missing From CMP

[raftman]

They're not criminals because they're smart. If this large amount of pistols are stolen, I doubt that person(s) is just going to hide them in their closet. Sooner or later they will sell one on the street, try to pawn it, or sell it at a gun show. One will turn up at a crime scene or in a stolen vehicle. A snitch will hear something. Then it begins to unravel. But I'm just speculating.

Good chance the serial numbers, etc end up filed off since they will almost certainly become crime guns. Since the serial numbers are known, you can't really sell them to collectors/enthusiasts because eventually one of those will turn up somewhere and the trail could be followed back to the people who stole it.

In the criminal world a gun sells for a lot more than it would when sold legitimately in a shop. This is why you'll never see actual criminals surrender their guns at "buybacks" even if they offer $200 gift cards in exchange for a Bryco that isn't worth $80.

 

[oremike]

Might have been lunch boxed out of there, ala Johnny Cash:

View: https://youtu.be/Hb9F2DT8iEQ

 

[Dozer99]

SCOTUS heard a case a year or two ago where they found that just having a gun with a filed off serial number is not a crime (the act of doing so is, but not just possessing one). Although the crooks are not know for being a brain trust, some of these will probably make it to the collectors market where a background check is not needed for person to person sales (like 14 states in the south).

In other news did you see the fines these guys got?

I have to wonder if this isn't related to the missing pistols. The CMP receives the 1911s from Anniston Army Depot. Was the CMP reporting missing pistols from the Anniston shipments during that two year time period? ???

Eight Individuals Sentenced to Federal Prison for Conspiring to Steal Government Property from Anniston Army Depot

www.justice.gov

-E-

Holy Cow!

 

[Old Dog]

Since the serial numbers are known, you can't really sell them to collectors/enthusiasts because eventually one of those will turn up somewhere and the trail could be followed back to the people who stole it.

Um, how would that happen? Even if a collector/enthusiast is taking one of these 1911s to his gun club, commercial range or the local shooting pit, no one will be checking serial numbers... Look at the history of stolen art. Many of these collectors keep the art in a private room in their homes where they are the only people to ever view, admire and enjoy it... The guns could still be sold privately even in a state that requires background checks, as the BC requirement seems to have contributed to a thriving black market (that even otherwise law-abiding citizens may be using).

Back on topic, it is pretty disappointing to find out that anyone involved in the CMP (presumably a civilian employee at Anniston) felt compelled to take these pistols. I really don't think they'll end up as "crime guns," unless the person(s) who stole them have gambling or drug addictions and are going for fast money -- but if that were the case, even the Army CID would have solved the case by now. No, I think there was a plan and there was/were already a buyer/buyers in place.

 

[nehalemguy]

Back on topic, it is pretty disappointing to find out that anyone involved in the CMP (presumably a civilian employee at Anniston) felt compelled to take these pistols.

Umm....you don't know that to be the case. All that we know for sure at this point is that 98 pistols are missing. We don't know if they were missing from crates delivered from the Anniston Army Depot, or turned up missing after delivery to the CMP. Not enough info at this time.

-E-

 

[Old Dog]

Umm....you don't know that to be the case. All that we know for sure at this point is that 98 pistols are missing. We don't know if they were missing from crates delivered from the Anniston Army Depot, or turned up missing after delivery to the CMP. Not enough info at this time.

-E-

Fair point -- I should have said that it would be disappointing if the CMP -- a great program -- had a corrupt employee who'd steal any of these pistols for personal gain.

 

[raftman]

Um, how would that happen? Even if a collector/enthusiast is taking one of these 1911s to his gun club, commercial range or the local shooting pit, no one will be checking serial numbers... Look at the history of stolen art. Many of these collectors keep the art in a private room in their homes where they are the only people to ever view, admire and enjoy it... The guns could still be sold privately even in a state that requires background checks, as the BC requirement seems to have contributed to a thriving black market (that even otherwise law-abiding citizens may be using).

…

The issue is that there's nearly 100 of them, and it will take just one to turn up in a transaction that requires paperwork. Suppose some guy ends up pawning one, selling it on consignment, maybe some guy gets his car impounded after a DUI it's found in the car, etc, etc.

 

[nehalemguy]

CMP receives the 1911s in crates from Anniston and they are stored in a secure vault until such time as they are opened by CMP employees. The crates may sit for several months before being opened. Serial numbers for each pistol in the crate are stenciled on the crate and there is a packing list as well that is supposed to match.

If the CMP were to open a crate and find a pistol missing from that crate, it would explain the reported 2+ year time frame of the missing pistols. CMP opens a crate, finds that serial number 918xxx is not in that crate, and reports it as missing to Anniston. Just my theory and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Photos from inside the vault in 2018.....

 

[540 M-Sport]

CMP receives the 1911s in crates from Anniston and they are stored in a secure vault until such time as they are opened by CMP employees. The crates may sit for several months before being opened. Serial numbers for each pistol in the crate are stenciled on the crate and there is a packing list as well that is supposed to match.

If the CMP were to open a crate and find a pistol missing from that crate, it would explain the reported 2+ year time frame of the missing pistols. CMP opens a crate, finds that serial number 918xxx is not in that crate, and reports it as missing to Anniston. Just my theory and worth exactly what you paid for it.

Photos from inside the vault in 2018.....

View attachment 1915885 View attachment 1915886 View attachment 1915887 View attachment 1915888 View attachment 1915889

CMP 1911 program supposedly holds an FFL. The rules are you must immediately log into your records (formally called your "bound book") the receipt or disposition of any firearm. You don't get the option to wait until you open the crate to verify serial numbers. You are instructed to always open boxes and confirm the serial number on the receiver matches the transfer paperwork. Then log it, recording the date they were received.

The fact that CID believes a crime occurred would lead me to believe that regardless of the time lag, the pistols were properly inventoried and logged by CMP 1911, but during an inventory check, which presumably happened in April 2024, they were no longer in their possession and no corresponding transaction shows them being logged out and shipped to an FFL recipient. If you have missing inventory, as an FFL you must report to law enforcement within 24 hours of discovery of the loss. Again, I am making an assumption, but CMP probably self reported to CID and BATF.

How this happened is CMP 1911 must not have been doing regular physical audits, and thus, assumed the missing 98 pistols were still in "inventory", until they discovered they were not.