A bit of history "Negroes With Guns"

[The B]

Did somebody call Goldwater a Racist? That paragraph was taken from Bigfoots "Encyclopedia of Alabama" source he used to argue that a black man in the south would not be allowed vote Democrat.

I guess if I was right wing I would do anything to convince myself that the KKK was not an extreme right wing organization. We will have to agree to disagree on that one bkb.

And what version of "right-wing" are you using?

 

[ereezy503]

Ever hear of the Eisenhower backed civil rights bill of 1957? Know who the Senate leader was who killed the bill? LBJ.

Civil Rights Act of 1957 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Senator Strom Thurmond of South Carolina, an ardent segregationist, sustained the longest one-person filibuster in history in an attempt to keep the bill from becoming law. His one-man filibuster lasted 24 hours and 18 minutes; he began with readings of every state's election laws in alphabetical order. Thurmond later read from the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and George Washington's Farewell Address. His speech set the record for a Senate filibuster.[2] The bill passed the House with a vote of 270 to 97 and the Senate 60 to 15. President Eisenhower signed it on September 9, 1957.

So the bill passed after all. If you have a different source I would be happy to read it.

 

[ereezy503]

It is true that LBJ had the bill altered before it was passed. He had to save face in front of the "Dixiecrats" after all. Eventually he had a change of heart:

After Kennedy's assassination, President Lyndon B. Johnson helped secure passage of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, making racial discrimination and segregation illegal[7], and the Voting Rights Act of 1965, which abolished the poll tax and other means of keeping blacks and poor people from registering to vote and voting, established record-keeping and oversight, and provided for federal enforcement in areas with documented patterns of discrimination.

As I said, the political spectrum was active and changing, along with the politicians of the time.

 

[ereezy503]

And what version of "right-wing" are you using?

Right-wing | Define Right-wing at Dictionary.com

 

[Bigfoot]

The 1957 Civil Rights Act

Eisenhower, perhaps shocked by the news broadcasts of Little Rock, publicly supported the bill (it was, after all, his Attorney-General who had produced the bill). However, the final act became a much watered done affair due to the lack of support among the Democrats. The Senate leader, Lyndon Baines Johnson, was a Democrat, and he realised that the bill and its journey through Congress, could tear apart his party as it had right wing Southern senators in it and liberal west coast ones.

In keeping with Congressional procedure, Johnson sent the bill to a judiciary committee which would examine it for flaws, controversial and unconstitutional points etc. This committee was led by Senator James Eastland - senator for Mississippi. Committee heads have great powers in changing bills and altering them almost beyond recognition. Eastland did just this especially after the very public outburst by Senator Richard Russell from Georgia who claimed that it was an example of the Federal government wanting to impose its laws on states, thus weakening highly protected states rights of self-government as stated in the Constitution. He was most critical of the new division which would be created within the Justice Department

Johnson had other reasons for taking his stance. No civil rights act had been introduced into America for 82 years. If this one went through successfully and had support from both parties, it would do his position within the Democrats a great deal of good as he had plans in 1957 to be the party's future presidential candidate. If he could get the credit for maintaining party unity and get the support of the South's Democrats for ‘killing the bill', then his position would be greatly advanced. If he was seen to be pushing through the first civil rights act in 82 years he hoped to get the support of the more liberal west and east coast Democrat senators.

I mentioned the 1957 Civil Rights bill to counter your revisionist vision of the parties positions in MLK jr. time. It wasn't until just before his assassination that the Dems co-opted civil rights for blacks. LBJ and the Sothern Democrats tore the 1957 bill apart. Cynics now say the LBJ did this because wanted to use Civil Rights as his own legacy later due to this quote. "I'll have them ni----- voting Democratic for two hundred years." It's my understanding that LBJ wasn't particularly racist but he did know what the southern voter wanted and it wasn't civil rights so he sided with them. He did come around though and got ahead of the issue to his credit. A few decades in power late and hundreds of murdered and thousands of terrorized blacks in the meanwhile.

It also should be noted that Blacks weren't the only minority that the Jim Crow laws discriminated against. Native Americans were considered colored for instance.

God I hated living in Alabama. The air was thick with racism, from ALL races/religions towards ALL the other races/religions. If you've never lived in a Balkanized community, don't. Couldn't wait to get back west.

 

[The B]

Right-wing | Define Right-wing at Dictionary.com

SMOS.

Get educated - Political spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[LoneStar]

...It's no secret that Republicans were the advocates for black equality for over a century until the dems instituted the civil rights act, and welfare in the 60s.
..The truth is, that Lincoln was a Repub...

Lincoln's main interest was not opposing slavery.

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[The B]

Lincoln's main interest was not opposing slavery.

<broken link removed>

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No.. actually he was pretty interested in freeing slaves. How interested? Only he will ever know... reading excerpts 160 years later is about as out-of-context as you can get, but there's ample evidence that he was primarily motivated by his conscience in opposition to slavery. Did he make racist comments? EVERYONE did, before the stigmatic term "racist" came into common use.

But you can chose to believe which ever account supports your agenda.

 

[ereezy503]

The 1957 Civil Rights Act



I mentioned the 1957 Civil Rights bill to counter your revisionist vision of the parties positions in MLK jr. time. It wasn't until just before his assassination that the Dems co-opted civil rights for blacks. LBJ and the Sothern Democrats tore the 1957 bill apart. Cynics now say the LBJ did this because wanted to use Civil Rights as his own legacy later due to this quote. "I'll have them ni----- voting Democratic for two hundred years." It's my understanding that LBJ wasn't particularly racist but he did know what the southern voter wanted and it wasn't civil rights so he sided with them. He did come around though and got ahead of the issue to his credit. A few decades in power late and hundreds of murdered and thousands of terrorized blacks in the meanwhile.

It also should be noted that Blacks weren't the only minority that the Jim Crow laws discriminated against. Native Americans were considered colored for instance.

God I hated living in Alabama. The air was thick with racism, from ALL races/religions towards ALL the other races/religions. If you've never lived in a Balkanized community, don't. Couldn't wait to get back west.

Right on Bigfoot. You must have been writing this when I wrote my last post. We are saying the same thing. LBJ tried to play both sides at first.

 

[Bigfoot]

Lonestar, Lincoln was torn between his conscience that told him to end slavery and the deaths that ending it could cause. And the possibility of splitting us into two separate nations. Not an easy decision. I'm sure his writings showed this inner torment.

You do know that people write books in order to profit from their sales right?

 

[ereezy503]

SMOS.

Get educated - Political spectrum - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks for the tip. I read the Wikipedia article. Please point out the flaw in this one.

Ku Klux Klan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as the Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present far-right[5][6][7][8] organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy, white nationalism, and anti-immigration, historically expressed through terrorism.[

Right is conservative. If you want to use one of several competing charts to try to invalidate differing opinions go ahead. KKK is and was an organization of the far right.

 

[LoneStar]

Lonestar, Lincoln was torn between his conscience that told him to end slavery and the deaths that ending it could cause. And the possibility of splitting us into two separate nations. Not an easy decision. I'm sure his writings showed this inner torment.

You do know that people write books in order to profit from their sales right?

Of course. I am not convinced ending slavery was the primary reason for the war between states. I'm sure there was more than one reason but tariff taxes was a big reason.

 

[LoneStar]

Truth is my agenda.

No.. actually he was pretty interested in freeing slaves. How interested? Only he will ever know... reading excerpts 160 years later is about as out-of-context as you can get, but there's ample evidence that he was primarily motivated by his conscience in opposition to slavery. Did he make racist comments? EVERYONE did, before the stigmatic term "racist" came into common use.

But you can chose to believe which ever account supports your agenda.

 

[The B]

Thanks for the tip. I read the Wikipedia article. Please point out the flaw in this one.

Ku Klux Klan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ku Klux Klan, often abbreviated KKK and informally known as the Klan, is the name of three distinct past and present far-right[5][6][7][8] organizations in the United States, which have advocated extremist reactionary currents such as white supremacy, white nationalism, and anti-immigration, historically expressed through terrorism.[

Right is conservative. If you want to use one of several competing charts to try to invalidate differing opinions go ahead. KKK is and was an organization of the far right.

So the KKK is "conservative." Which means, simply, and literally, that, in general, on a majority of issues, they want to keep the system the way it is, and resist most progressive reform.

So are you implying that most of America is KKK (no- I know you're not)?

I'm just wondering what the relevance is. For transparency, I consider myself "far right," but my beliefs are significantly more reactionary than any Klansman's. Based on my far-right leanings, I value individual civil liberty more than anything... and the idea of regarding non-whites as inferior in ANY way is totally contrary to that theme. To me, and everyone I know who considers himself "right wing," the KKK are gonna be out somewhere left of Bill Clinton. Conservatives. People who DON'T value individual liberty. People who would use government to restrict individual civil liberty. Ideologues. Social controlists. Etc.

A trademark characteristic of us "far-rightists" is a distaste, even hatred, for authoritarianism. You think the KKK belongs over here with us? No, partner- they're more your kin than ours.

 

[BadMotel]

So the KKK is "conservative." Which means, simply, and literally, that, in general, on a majority of issues, they want to keep the system the way it is, and resist most progressive reform.

Yes.

So are you implying that most of America is KKK (no- I know you're not)?

No.

The KKK is a thing of the past. Yes there are still small sect's throughout America, but as a whole they are undeniably broken.

Now, before I make my next statement, I want to clarify somethings. Republicans are not as a while racists. Nor am I pointing to anyone on this point and claiming they are racists. The acts of the Klan can be universally agreed to be horrific. I'm also not saying that all Republicans are homophobic and/or against abortion and/re gun rights, or any of the other major party debate points.

Now, in relation to what you said first, and wanting to keep things the same, then they have the same foundation of ideals as modern Republicans in that regard. In the time the Klan did not just hate blacks, they hated the idea of free blacks. They came into existence because blacks were getting more rights, and they feared American life would stray from that which they were used to.

This applies to what republicans are doing now. As a whole, the republican party is against homosexual equality. I'm not going to get into why it should or shouldn't be legal, but I think the foundation is it wasn't legal and the thought that if it becomes legal could ruin American ideals. Same with abortions. Gun rights are a huge topic on this board for obvious reasons, and you could spend all day reading threads on people who feel any additional legislation on gun control will demolish our way of life.

 

[Jamie6.5]

Gosh BM, we conservatives are certainly happy that you got all your preconceived notions sorted out for the forum.

Any other "Gems of wisdom" from that opinionated, yet misguided mind of yours, that you'd care to share?

 

[BadMotel]

Funny to hear someone like you say someone else is opinionated as though it were a bad thing.

 

[ereezy503]

So the KKK is "conservative." Which means, simply, and literally, that, in general, on a majority of issues, they want to keep the system the way it is, and resist most progressive reform.

So are you implying that most of America is KKK (no- I know you're not)?

I'm just wondering what the relevance is. For transparency, I consider myself "far right," but my beliefs are significantly more reactionary than any Klansman's. Based on my far-right leanings, I value individual civil liberty more than anything... and the idea of regarding non-whites as inferior in ANY way is totally contrary to that theme. To me, and everyone I know who considers himself "right wing," the KKK are gonna be out somewhere left of Bill Clinton. Conservatives. People who DON'T value individual liberty. People who would use government to restrict individual civil liberty. Ideologues. Social controlists. Etc.

A trademark characteristic of us "far-rightists" is a distaste, even hatred, for authoritarianism. You think the KKK belongs over here with us? No, partner- they're more your kin than ours.

I hear you partner. I take it you are assuming I am a Liberal. If I were I would not want to be associated with the Black Panthers or Communists. That does not stop them from springing out of the far left. Just because you don't like the KKK does not mean it doesn't have roots in the far right. I am not saying all conservatives are Klan members.

The reason it was relavent is because when this thread started it was based on an Ann Coulter article that talked about the Klan being a democratic organization. I felt that was irresponsible reporting to leave out the fact that the democrats at the time were conservative and on the right side of the political spectrum. That's what this whole thread has been about and you are asking me why it is relavent.

 

[Blitzkrieg]

Yes.

No.

The KKK is a thing of the past. Yes there are still small sect's throughout America, but as a whole they are undeniably broken.

Now, before I make my next statement, I want to clarify somethings. Republicans are not as a while racists. Nor am I pointing to anyone on this point and claiming they are racists. The acts of the Klan can be universally agreed to be horrific. I'm also not saying that all Republicans are homophobic and/or against abortion and/re gun rights, or any of the other major party debate points.

Now, in relation to what you said first, and wanting to keep things the same, then they have the same foundation of ideals as modern Republicans in that regard. In the time the Klan did not just hate blacks, they hated the idea of free blacks. They came into existence because blacks were getting more rights, and they feared American life would stray from that which they were used to.

This applies to what republicans are doing now. As a whole, the republican party is against homosexual equality. I'm not going to get into why it should or shouldn't be legal, but I think the foundation is it wasn't legal and the thought that if it becomes legal could ruin American ideals. Same with abortions. Gun rights are a huge topic on this board for obvious reasons, and you could spend all day reading threads on people who feel any additional legislation on gun control will demolish our way of life.

Actually the Klan were an improvised police force bent on protecting Southerners from crime, since the Northern aggressors would not.. they hung far more bad whites than blacks

Stop getting your information from the mainslime media and you might actually learn something

I have one question.. since desegregation and the "civil rights" movement, is black on white crime better, or far worse?

 

[jake2far]

Perhaps this will shed some light on the subject:
Black conservatism in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The time frame you choose will set the stage for your belief being confirmed.

Jim