6 Dead, Dying, and Soon-To-Be-Obsolete Handgun Cartridges

[po18guy]

For any and all who have that now worthless .41 Action Express ammo and brass. I'll pay the freight.

 

[RVTECH]

Was .38 Super ever brought up?

 

[po18guy]

As long as Colt and other 1911 makers are selling .38 Supers, I think it dodges the bullet so to speak.

 

[21tango]

For any and all who have that now worthless .41 Action Express ammo and brass. I'll pay the freight.

Good luck! I saw some a while back selling for $3 a round online

 

[Ringo]

I remember a lot being written by the gun rags about the 41, they tried to talk it into popularity. One story was the 41 came out with a lower speed less powerful police load and a magnum hunting loading. I read later that the cops just didn't like the 41 power load and the guns were too big for every day carry. N frames are heavy.

I owned a 41 Ruger as a young man but found the 44 mag did everything better and was cheaper to shoot in the old days. 41 Smiths were really hard to find too.

i have 2 SMITH 41 mags. 6 & 8.3/8 inch barrels... BEYOND COOL !!!

 

[oremike]

I have the Ruger Blackhawk in 41 Mag and plan on having it converted to a Bisley.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The main thing, the 9x19, the most awesome cartridge ever, is 120 years old.

 

[The Heretic]

9mm is a market on it's own all right. But I'm an ammo manufacturer and can say for sure that the demand for 380 is increasing. I'd say second only to 9mm in popularity.

There was/is a list that I have posted somewhere, and I can't find it again, but it is by the NSSF or some other body that surveys major ammo manufacturers/sellers, and the list shows 9mm as first, then .40 S&W, then .45 ACP further down the list IIRC.

 

[The Heretic]

Outdoor channel producers, gun publications, and YouTube channel gun gods please keep pushing the narrative that .40 is bad! You and LEO/GOV have definitely devalued the round and guns tremendously due to your stance and separation and I've taken advantage of some smoking hot deals during this purge over the past 10 years. Just because LEO/GOV gave up on the cartridge doesn't mean sportsman and gun enthusiast should. But like I mentioned above keep dogging the cartridge because I'm going to keep taking advantage of the good deals while they last.

Ditto - a LOT of my .40 ammo has come from NWFA members dumping the .40 they have - more than one because their LE org went back to 9mm, and some of the .40 ammo I got online as PD tradein ammo. I have twice as much .40 ammo as I do 9x19 ammo.

 

[po18guy]

Good luck! I saw some a while back selling for $3 a round online

Dreamers! I hope it tastes good, cuz they're going to have to eat it.
Looking for someone who has a box on the shelf somewhere. New brass is $1 per, which is not that bad in today's market.

 

[DeanMk]

The main thing, the 9x19, the most awesome cartridge ever, is 120 years old.

The 9x19 was created due to the US Army being dismayed with the performance of the 7.65mm cartridge that the Luger pistole was chambered in, back in the days of the Army's testing for a new sidearm.
They liked the pistole, but wanted it to have the performance of the .45 the 1911 was chambered for.
While redesigning the gun for a "better" cartridge, Luger created a "stop-gap" alternative by blowing out the 7.65 cartridge, creating the 9mm.
......and the rest is history.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The 9x19 was created due to the US Army being dismayed with the performance of the 7.65mm cartridge that the Luger pistole was chambered in, back in the days of the Army's testing for a new sidearm.
They liked the pistole, but wanted it to have the performance of the .45 the 1911 was chambered for.
While redesigning the gun for a "better" cartridge, Luger created a "stop-gap" alternative by blowing out the 7.65 cartridge, creating the 9mm.
......and the rest is history.

Yerp

 

[Will_White]

The 9x19 was created due to the US Army being dismayed with the performance of the 7.65mm cartridge that the Luger pistole was chambered in, back in the days of the Army's testing for a new sidearm.
They liked the pistole, but wanted it to have the performance of the .45 the 1911 was chambered for.
While redesigning the gun for a "better" cartridge, Luger created a "stop-gap" alternative by blowing out the 7.65 cartridge, creating the 9mm.
......and the rest is history.

The 9mm was made before 45 ACP for the German military. US wanting a 45 had nothing to do with its creation.

 

[po18guy]

Just because one may not like a certain cartridge, or care to own one, does not mean that it is obsolete and dying. Just saying.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

From what I understand the 9x19 is totally different than 30 Luger not just blown out case. Borchardt on right lead to 30 Luger in middle lead to 9x19 on left. Case length and base totally different. I understood Germany military was driving force not USA at all. Swiss were happy with 30 Luger and kept it from what I understand but I'm far from any kind of expert on the subject.

A lot of this info gets repeated even though the info is wrong so it's hard to tell what is accurate. If Ian or c&rarsenal said it I would say it's accurate cuz they use their own research (and say clearly when the info is missing, or they don't know) not just repeat what others have said. I don't know what either of them said on the subject, just using them as an example of an accurate source of info. Imo the best way to determine if a source is trustworthy is they can distinguish between what they know from their personal research and what they don't know. Most sources never will admit they don't know (insert Socrates quote about he who knows here ha ha).

 

[Certaindeaf]

From what I understand the 9x19 is totally different than 30 Luger not just blown out case. Borchardt on right lead to 30 Luger in middle lead to 9x19 on left. Case length and base totally different. I understood Germany military was driving force not USA at all. Swiss were happy with 30 Luger and kept it from what I understand but I'm far from any kind of expert on the subject.
View attachment 1044402
A lot of this info gets repeated even though the info is wrong so it's hard to tell what is accurate. If Ian or c&rarsenal said it I would say it's accurate cuz they use their own research (and say clearly when the info is missing, or they don't know) not just repeat what others have said. I don't know what either of them said on the subject, just using them as an example of an accurate source of info. Imo the best way to determine if a source is trustworthy is they can distinguish between what they know from their personal research and what they don't know. Most sources never will admit they don't know (insert Socrates quote about he who knows here ha ha).

The original 9x19 loading used a flat nosed truncated bullet.

 

[CLT65]

The 9mm was made before 45 ACP for the German military. US wanting a 45 had nothing to do with its creation.

DeanMk's post has more substance than you might think. I do remember something about U.S. trials at the time, but no details; found this on Wikipedia (for what it's worth):

In 1902, Luger presented the new round to the British Small Arms Committee, as well as three prototype versions to the U.S. Army for testing at Springfield Arsenal in mid-1903. The Imperial German Navy adopted the cartridge in 1904 and in 1908 the German Army adopted it as well.[7] The ogive of the bullet was slightly redesigned in the 1910s to improve feeding.

The U.S. at the time was stuck on .45 caliber, due to experience with the .45 Colt, and the .38 Long Colt in the Philippines. They wanted .45 (long) Colt performance in an automatic, and they got it with the .45 acp.

 

[Will_White]

DeanMk's post has more substance than you might think. I do remember something about U.S. trials at the time, but no details; found this on Wikipedia (for what it's worth):

The U.S. at the time was stuck on .45 caliber, due to experience with the .45 Colt, and the .38 Long Colt in the Philippines. They wanted .45 (long) Colt performance in an automatic, and they got it with the .45 acp.

The Impetus for 9mm Luger was still the German Military not the US. It was fairly common knowledge (from what I've read) that the US wanted 45 for their next pistol so offering a (perceived at the time) underpowered 9mm was more for getting them interested in the design, Luger would go on to make 45 cal pistols for the trials that would yield the m1911.

 

[CLT65]

I didn't remember the specifics, just that there were a lot military trials around that same time, in several countries. From what I could find, it appears that the 9mm came about because the German military wanted something more powerful than the .30 Luger, like you say.

I was just pointing out that though the .45 acp was indeed developed later, it was the performance of the earlier .45 Colt that the U.S. military wanted, that they eventually got in the acp.

I've always found it interesting that the U.S. went with the big .45 when so many other countries went smaller. I know the Philippines campaign had a lot to do with it, but I've often wondered if another influence was the fact that earlier American big-bore revolvers were developed as "horse pistols" capable of stopping a horse, and that thought was ingrained in the American perspective. Maybe the Europeans only cared about stopping people, not horses. Just a thought.

 

[oremike]

Colt had it's own 9mm prior to the 45 acp called the 38 acp. One can surmise that was being looked at for Military use but they decided to go with the 45 cal bullet and the rest is history.