308 XL COAL - normal?

[pinne65]

I just loaded HDY 168 / 178 grs BTHP over 45.5 / 43 grs IMR 4064 for my Remington 308 SPS Tac. As I don't have a gauge I seated long and backed off until the bullets weren't touching the lands and then another 1/2 turn on the seater. The COAL for the 168 was 2.92 and 2.96 for the 178 gr.

Previously I've always seated to 2.8 and checked that the bolt closed. I'm still fairly green on reloading rifle cartridges. I've done about 200 rounds total.

I know the manual says max COAL 2.81 and also that the bullet lengths vary. And that you want the bullets as close as possible to the lands w.o. touching for best accuracy. So I'm thinking I'm good. But It'd be nice to hear from someone with more experience.

2 Cents Welcome.

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[DizzyJ]

If you're off the lands by a few thousandths, and the bullets is seated deep enough to get a good hold on the bullet, you should be good to go.

It is what it is. The Remington's usually have a pretty long leade. Do the shells fit inside the gun/magazine?

I'm not sure what a 1/2 turn equates to concerning depth.

Are you measuring tip to base or ogive to base?

Also, have you done a work up as far as powder charge is concerned? You ALWAYS want to start at the bottom and slowly work your way up. Different barrels and different bullets will create different pressures. You don't want to get THAT kind of surprise by going too far too fast.

 

[Crohnos01]

I loaded rife cartridges for 30 years without a gauge. I would do the same basic process you described. I would recommend that you load up a half dozen or more rounds and make sure they chamber and eject ok. Years ago I didn't check a sufficient number of rounds and found too late that I didn't seat the bullets deep enough. This resulted in the bullets getting grabbed by the lands and then being pulled out of the case when I tried to eject an unfired round.

 

[308]

Hand seat a projectile in a sized & non-primered case, run a black sharpy all over the projectile and chamber the cartridge. When the bolt closes it will press the round into the case and leave scuff marks showing how far the round went into the bore. You will find the max dimension, and then work backwards from there.

Not saying this is the right science, it just gave me an idea of what I was dealing with in my Rem 700

 

[pinne65]

Thanks for the input guys!

I measured tip to base. When the bullet was seated long the bolt was a little hard to close and left scuff marks. I backed off until it didn't and then the extra 1/2 turn (~ 0.007"). No problems chambering or ejecting. I have used these powder base loads before and am in the process of testing loads +/- 0.5 grain around it.

 

[jordanka16]

Put the bolt in the rifle and run a cleaning rod in until it touches the bolt face, then make a mark on the rod with tape or something.

Take out the bolt but leave the cleaning rod in, and push a bullet into the chamber with a pencil or something, until it touches the rifling, then push the cleaning rod up against it. Make another mark on the cleaning rod. Then you can measure the distance between the marks to get your max OAL.

I like to start .02-.015" off the lands for most rifles, some will like closer and some will like longer, and it will depend on the bullet as well. Just remember that if you get close to the lands you need to start low again, it will increase the pressure.

And like someone else said, before you go and load 200 rounds long, make sure they fit in the magazine

 

[erslll]

Put the bolt in the rifle and run a cleaning rod in until it touches the bolt face, then make a mark on the rod with tape or something.

Take out the bolt but leave the cleaning rod in, and push a bullet into the chamber with a pencil or something, until it touches the rifling, then push the cleaning rod up against it. Make another mark on the cleaning rod. Then you can measure the distance between the marks to get your max OAL.

I like to start .02-.015" off the lands for most rifles, some will like closer and some will like longer, and it will depend on the bullet as well. Just remember that if you get close to the lands you need to start low again, it will increase the pressure.

And like someone else said, before you go and load 200 rounds long, make sure they fit in the magazine

What he said..... With the exception that even if you rounds fit in a magazine, they may not feed. I recently loaded some 308 rounds specifically to fit in Magpul AICS mags, only to find that they don't feed in my 5R. They catch on the feed ramp. Live and learn, I guess.

The other thing I would add is that the Hornady OAL gauge works pretty slick also. I have been reloading for about 8 years but just recently got the OAL gauge, headspace gauges and bullet comparator. Only spent a little over $100 on all of it and well worth every penny.

 

[Crohnos01]

I second the Hornady OAL gauge. I have been reloading for 45 years and just gone one a couple of years ago. You can do it without one, but it makes it soooo much nicer when you have one.

 

[DizzyJ]

I second the Hornady OAL gauge. I have been reloading for 45 years and just gone one a couple of years ago. You can do it without one, but it makes it soooo much nicer when you have one.

It certainly does.

 

[No_Regerts]

I second the Hornady OAL gauge. I have been reloading for 45 years and just gone one a couple of years ago. You can do it without one, but it makes it soooo much nicer when you have one.

This. A Hornady Lock and Load OAL gauge is only $35. You can then measure OAL for any bullet shape.

 

[Member 5605]

This. A Hornady Lock and Load OAL gauge is only $35. You can then measure OAL for any bullet shape.

This.

And

This.

I run mine so long they won't fit and its hand feed only. .025-.015" off lands.

Do NOT measure from the tip. Measure from the ogive. This is worth repeating. Ogive measurements. If you want to get into long bullets you need to do it right. Not all bullets have the same meplat and poly tip length.

Yeah it costs a little but you are doing this for accuracy right?

I believe my ogive length for 175SMK's is like 2.32x", if you were closer I'd say let's measure up your chamber so you play it safe.

Measure all of your bullet projectiles. See if they are all the same from tip to base. If they are I'll retract all my words above.

If you want to play the accuracy game do it the safe way. you yourself said you have only loaded about 200 rounds so far. That's not many when considering everything. I'm assuming you have your powder load?

All of that is going to change. As you increase volume in the case by pushing the bullet further and further out your velocities will decrease because of the extra room in the case. You will need a chronograph to start checking velocities etc. I'm sharing this because the path you are going down is one I took a year ago. It's fresh in my mind and I ended up with ammo that's damn close to the lands, accurate and still running the velocities I want to keep my bullet supersonic past 950 yards.

 

[pinne65]

Ok - might get a gauge and a chronograph soon. Meanwhile I'm not relaying on the tip to base measurement for seating. It's just kind of the average COAL I got when I did the chambering test. I loaded 60 rounds in the two weights and chambered each one.

 

[pinne65]

Everything went well - no signs of over pressure, except for - I found some 208 gr bthp that I loaded a lil too hot and they all had sticky bolt, (It was another brand of brass though SSA instead of Nosler). But it's just 7 pullets to pull. If it wasn't for me i feel these groups @ 100 yds would be much better.

 

[jordanka16]

Nice, are those worked up loads?

If you get to albany ever let me know and we can go to ARPC and you can run some loads over my chrono if you'd like.

 

[pinne65]

I kind of picked up where I left off on starting working up loads or actually learning how to reload bottle neck rifle a while back. The 168s are "worked up", the 178s are "worked down" , had a note one some old ones sitting around saying TOO HOT, so i did some pulling.

Thanks for the offer! Been wanting to go to Albany for the machine gun shoot for many years, but I guess that rules out all other shooting or?

 

[jordanka16]

Yeah the MG shoot takes up the whole main range. It's worth going to though.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Here's my 2 cents: Sounds like your freebore is long. Pretty common in Remington 700 chambers. I wouldn't worry about it, as long as your ammo fits in the magazine. Your 45.5gr. charge looks like it will work just fine. I'd leave the OAL as it is. My only concern is not knowing how far off the lands that bullet is. I like to write stuff down in my notes, just so I can duplicate that load again later. IF you have some good reloading manuals, they will walk you through the simple process of finding the lands in every rifle you own with the bullet you are wanting to load. I like the simple approach to finding OAL and lands. It doesn't require any fancy gadgets that cost you extra money. They just aren't necessary or needed when loading for a bolt action rifle. IMHO.. Here's how I do it: Take a fired case from your rifle, slightly bend in the case neck so your bullet will slide back and forth in the neck with some resistance. Set the bullet in the case neck so it's sticking out long, use a lighter to apply soot to the bullet, chamber said cartridge and very gently pull the bolt back and measure the OAL. Sometimes you can see where your lands has pulled the bullet back out of the case a bit (the reason I soot the bullet). Just push the bullet back to the line where the soot starts. Measure your OAL. This is the exact OAL to the lands. Do this with 5-10 bullets from that lot if you want and go with the average. Now back the bullet off by .010-.020" and do some accuracy testing. Whether your are measuring to the ogive of the bullet or the tip, it really doesn't matter: As long as you are creating accurate and reliable ammo that works well in your rifle, and keeping good notes as to what works, that's what is important. Good luck with your reloading and remember to be safe....

 

[pinne65]

Finally got some time to reload again this weekend and found out my rifle literally hates next sizing only. I stuck with my previous method of seating - long and then backing off. (I might try bsa1917's method above next time).

The interesting finding was that with neck sizing only the average COAL to the tip shrunk almost 1/5" to 2.725. I backed off some on the powder to accomodate for the decrease in volume but still ran into sticky bolt @45 grains. Also, groups opened up to 2-3 moa @ 100 yards and even worse @ 300 yards. I couldn't get it out of my mind, so this morning I went back to full case resizing with another batch and headed for the range. Lo and behold - accuracy was back to "normal". I had to seat avg tip to 2.825 instead of 2.92 though, or the cartridges would not go into the magazine (Last outing I had only fed them one at a time). Live and learn...

 

[erslll]

Why would COAL change because of neck sizing?

 

[pinne65]

IDK, but that's what happened. I measured the cases after neck sizing and they gained 1-2/1000" in length. After full length resizing they gain 4-5/1000" and I trim back to 2.005. The case neck moves back a bit not sure how much. I will repeat both procedures again and report back. Or I could have had a 60 round bad day at the range on Saturday.