21 foot rule

[EPS]

The thread reminded me of a 1974 video produced by the FBI, entitled "Shooting for Survival". A minor tangent, granted, but some might enjoy the vintage material, albeit for various reasons.

That's awesome 40 year's later still working

 

[Caveman Jim]

Damn I gave away my Age talking bout cassette tape Music lol

Oh yer just a pup, I cut my Rock n Roll teeth on 8-Tracks baby!!!!

 

[EPS]

Oh yer just a pup, I cut my Rock n Roll teeth on 8-Tracks baby!!!!

Oh yer just a pup, I cut my Rock n Roll teeth on 8-Tracks baby!!!!

Yep but I'm not that young I know bout 8tracks my mom and dad had them when I was a kid lol

 

[Flopsweat]

I'm going to go on a little bit of a rant lol people think cop's are like robots or something and that 's just not true they are regular guy's and girls like the rest of us they just have a job that requires them to interact with the worst of us out there I was duck hunting a Year ago and saw these two guys walking around looking for a place to hunt I told them they could come sit in my blind with me I was by myself I talked to them and had coffee and just basically HUNTING STORY'S for over a hour and a half before they told me they where both KING COUNTY SHERIFF so you never know I don't have any problems with law enforcement my friend in Jr high and high school his dad was California highway patrol and later my moms second husband was retired police officer and I worked for a Doctor that a lot of his friends where cops so I know how they are off duty and on duty two different world 's

One of the nicest guys at our club is LE. Most people don't even know it. Some LEO you can just tell. This guy doesn't give off the vibe. Just real easy to get along with.

 

[11Charlie]

One of the nicest guys at our club is LE. Most people don't even know it. Some LEO you can just tell. This guy doesn't give off the vibe. Just real easy to get along with.

I have a LEO that comes into our shop on a regular basis. I think he is a patrol commander. Super nice and laid back. I have had some great conversations with him.

 

[EPS]

One of the nicest guys at our club is LE. Most people don't even know it. Some LEO you can just tell. This guy doesn't give off the vibe. Just real easy to get along with.

And I bet if he told everyone he was a cop they would treat him different I had good time hunting that day with the two sheriff 's lol

 

[EPS]

The best was when duck came in and the one shot Three shots and missed lol and I told him when down in his Patrol Area I don't have to worry bout being shot by him cause he can't shoot Worth a s#!+ haha we all good laugh at that one

 

[EPS]

But they did talk bout stuff that we the regular people don't see like car accident where dad and kids burned in a car and showing up on crime scene with people shot OR stabbed or just dead from other stuff I had heard some stories before from step dad and friend 's dad and even my sister when she was in coast guard and now working with the fire department it's a job I don't want

 

[skeezix]

Yep. Like you mentioned the bigger cities here are full of kooks that are left to run free.

I thought you were talking about the politicians that are running those cities.

 

[EPS]

Talking bout this reminds me of last summer in Ellensburg WA a car accident I see them all the time but this one stopped traffic on I 90 east bound for over 2 hours and when we started moving we all had to move to left lane and a State Patrol officer directing traffic just telling people keep moving to the left and he was not happy people slowing down to look the look on his face told the story and when I passed I saw the car that had rolled over with blood all over the drivers door and side of car found out later 22 year old girl killed rolled car head out the window crushed by car so that's a every day thing or every other day thing for them but I remember his face he was not having a good day

 

[Flopsweat]

And I bet if he told everyone he was a cop they would treat him different I had good time hunting that day with the two sheriff 's lol

This is exactly why I don't tell people. If he wants them to know he can tell them. A lot of them seem to like it that way.

But they did talk bout stuff that we the regular people don't see like car accident where dad and kids burned in a car and showing up on crime scene with people shot OR stabbed or just dead from other stuff I had heard some stories before from step dad and friend 's dad and even my sister when she was in coast guard and now working with the fire department it's a job I don't want

Not a job I would want, and big props to anyone who can do that stuff for more than a year.

 

[jvbutter]

Not to mention give them money every month to buy more drugs since if we don't they will take to crime. This is what the voters have been asking for.

what... you have a program to give the addicts money for them to get their drugs and leave the citizens alone? tell me i read this wrong?

 

[caarecengi]

Yes the only thing that I saw was a mistake was the police drove his car right in the middle of the mess so as soon as he got out of car he was less than 21 feet and was in the fight in seconds

Yeah but I defend that decision. LEO was a first responder and did the right thing to insert himself into the situation.

 

[Alexx1401]

what... you have a program to give the addicts money for them to get their drugs and leave the citizens alone? tell me i read this wrong?

Yep, we have multiple Gov. Agencies that give the dope addict money. In the form of cash and the form of stuff they sell for cash, which then goes to the local dope dealer. When we champion taking this away even many conservatives complain it will not work. The drug addicts will turn to crime. When someone tells me this I often have to wonder how much time they spent in the real world. Many really seem to believe paying these dope heads keeps them at home high and not breaking into cars and homes. <shrug>

 

[clearconscience]

The thing about drugs is, it's never enough.
The more you take the more you will need.
And you add the mentally ill on that and it's a powder keg just waiting to go off.

 

[Core]

Looked like a lot of people were trying to get stabbed in that 3rd video. I get it that he stabbed one of their friends earlier, but there is no way I'm approaching the guy. I might follow him so I can tell the Police where he is or warn people to get away, but that's about it.

They attacked him. Unfortunately he wasn't smart enough to drop the knife and appeared as though he was going after the officer.

 

[oldcorpgunny]

Good job of flushing the toilet!

 

[Alexx1401]

The thing about drugs is, it's never enough.
The more you take the more you will need.
And you add the mentally ill on that and it's a powder keg just waiting to go off.

Yes, and it seems to be impossible to get many to understand that. There are so many people looking for any excuse for this is the only reason it's gotten this bad. Where it gets tragic is when children are the victims. A lot of dopers find they can shuck out kids and make more money. The money is of course supposed to be for "the children". It also ends up in the dope dealers pocket and the kids are raised like animals. So the dopers are being paid to create copies of themselves. If enough people ever decide to quit making excuses and enabling the dopers it will not be fun to watch. It will come to an end one way or another.

 

[Flopsweat]

Yep, we have multiple Gov. Agencies that give the dope addict money. In the form of cash and the form of stuff they sell for cash, which then goes to the local dope dealer. When we champion taking this away even many conservatives complain it will not work. The drug addicts will turn to crime. When someone tells me this I often have to wonder how much time they spent in the real world. Many really seem to believe paying these dope heads keeps them at home high and not breaking into cars and homes. <shrug>

Remember when we used to feed people? As in church dinners and soup kitchens? It was really hard to scam a system like that. You had to sit down at a table with the hobos and winos to get a free meal. Now we just give them money. And you wonder why there's so much fraud. Well, "you" don't but you know what I mean.

They attacked him. Unfortunately he wasn't smart enough to drop the knife and appeared as though he was going after the officer.

Thanks. I didn't realize that. Are they then in some way complicit in his death?

 

[308Tom]

21 feet for the Tueller drill is just a guideline if you have a holstered weapon. In most of these instances the cops already have their guns out so it becomes a difficult decision on when and if they should shoot. The BG in this instance was a lot closer than 21 feet and was advancing on the officer and not complying with verbal commands. The officer actually gave him plenty of time to drop the knife. Seems like a good shoot to me and a great example of why cops should wear body cameras.

I agree - but please know that Tueller is a concept - proven with active duty police drawing drawing from a duty holster against a charging opponent - and 21 feet is the number that worked for with a consistent 2 second draw and shoot time. FOR OTHERS the concept should be applied for instance - what is your draw and shoot time from your concealment holster? Multiply that time by the approximate 10 feet per second of a charging BG and see what distance you get. Ideally record your notes and then be able to articulate why you shot the BG with a contact weapon when he was still 10 feet away. ANY CONTACT WITH A CONTACT WEAPON IS POTENTIALLY LETHAL - act accordingly.