100 bucks is 100 bucks!

[Decksnipe]

100 bucks is 100 bucks

I know I don't post on the forums much anymore, at least not under this username as it is for business only, but I wanted to pass on a little bit of wisdom and warn any of you who care to listen before I move out of the area.

I have been in the FFL business in WA for just over 15yrs, started out in Whitecenter, Tukwila and now out here in Belfair. I was more active on Seattleguns before it shut down, I haven't really had time to jump on here as I'm often too busy or I just read posts and don't really post anymore.

I am not really a dealer by definition; I primarily focus on providing coating services, repairs, basic gunsmithing and of course I provide transfer services to my local area residents in rural Mason County. I will also place special orders for firearms, but I am not a stocking dealer. I do all this with my focus on customer service, and making sure everyone gets one on one personalized services. Not the "take a number and we will get to you" approach that many businesses have turned to. This business does not pay enough to survive on, I am medically retired and I do it as a hobby and service more to keep myself sane and busy. What money I make I use to take the kids on vacation and add a couple firearms to my personal collection each year. You really don't make bank doing this.

The number one call I always get is people looking for a deal, and I get it, we all want the best deal, or we are on a "my wife will only let me spend this much" budget, so they call up and ask how much I can get a certain firearm for. I then put down whatever I am working on and pull up my computer and access my distributors to find out if they have one in stock and if so, what the cost to customer is. Usually after spending as much as 15 to 20 minutes to locate and price one out, I get the "I want to support the local guy, but…" and then they proceed to purchase online or wherever… out of every 20 calls I might get 1 to actually purchase thru me.

I get it, online is cheaper, but how much cheaper and what is the overall cost of cutting out your local FFL?

Today I got one of those calls, here's our conversation:

"Hi, I'm looking for a Mossberg 590 in 410, I would rather support the local guy, what can you do for me?"

So, I looked it up and only one of my distributors had one in stock. Now keep in mind, not being a "STOCKING DEALER" means I must go through distributors such as Davidson's, Lipsey's, RSR or one of the others, I have a low tier level on volume, so I don't get much of a dealer discount… and I def don't get direct to manufacturing pricing.

I let him know that I can get one in, and the cost would be $589, which granted, that is MSRP, but my dealer price is $469 plus $14.99 shipping so total cost to me is $483.99 so less than 18% markup to cover an hour and a half worth of work, cost of licenses, taxes and insurance plus putting some in the Kids vacation fund.

Keep in mind the average markup on other retail items is 30-40% nationwide. Firearm sales don't make you rich at 10 - 20% unless you can sell in volume, which I am not set up to do, and of course the average customer expects you to give it away, since they "can get it online cheaper"

Carrying on.

Caller replies that's ridiculous, he can get one for $479 from _______ online retailer and that I'm ripping him off, expecting me to drop my price… I let him know this is the price I can do, and he gives me the "Well, I would like to support the local guy, but 100 bucks is 100 bucks" and that ends the conversation.

So let's hash this out.

My price was $589 plus 8.7% tax (Mason County) would be $640.24 plus $18 fee to WSP

Online he will pay $479 plus tax, plus shipping, usually $20, plus 10% online tax as most online sellers go by the highest tax in the state. So that puts him at $548.90, Good price, but now he must find an FFL to send it to…. From what I hear, that is becoming harder and harder to find in our area. I used to charge $50 for a transfer, but I stopped accepting transfers as of March 1st​ as I am moving out of state, so I am out of the game. Average cost is $50-$85 per transfer in our area, I have even heard of a dealer in our county charging as much as $125 -$140 per transfer… so now he is up anywhere from $599 - $729 plus the $18 fee to WSP

He could potentially save about $40 or overpay by up $70. But saving $40 doesn't keep your local FFL in business.

Keep this in mind with the new laws coming into effect on July 1st​, causing many small and local FFL's like myself to shut down, or absorb higher costs of doing business and pass them onto the customer, the transfer fees are just going to skyrocket and I really hate to see what prices become when the Permit to Purchase scheme, and all the other new FFL regulations get implemented in the following years as well.

If the local population doesn't start to support their small FFL's, they are going to simply disappear or move out of state like I am. The personalized service and knowledge of your local gunsmith will end.

So be prepared, take a number, be nothing more than a number, make sure you have deep enough pockets, and stand in line at the Big Box Stores for your transfers…

But Hey, 100 buck is 100 bucks!

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[RVTECH]

He could potentially save about $40 or overpay by up $70.

If $ 40 is all he could potentially save, along with having to find an FFL to have it sent to as opposed to a 'sure thing' with YOU - then he is NOT that interested (or honest) about wanting it.

$ 40 on a firearm purchase is hardy a 'blip on the radar' - especially if it is something he cannot find say, 'locally' that might be a commonly stocked item for example in a store such as Bi - Mart and where he MIGHT be able to save a few bucks and deal with it 'over the counter' - but otherwise you offered him a very fair deal.

Recently I was asking my local Bi Mart of they ever get 9MM RIA 1911's in stock and the guy told me to look at the BM website and see if it's something they carry, and if I can find one I can pay online and have it shipped to my local store but unfortunately it doesn't look like the 9mm is anything they stock.

My point being I would MUCH rather deal with a known, local dealer knowing it will be where the gun shows up rather than 'chase around' on my own looking for an FFL to have it sent to.

 

[1911Fanatic]

Yeah, I haven't ever ordered a firearm online, unless it was the online sites of my three local GS's.

I've used Cabela's, Mazama's and Northwest Arsenal. I tend to avoid Cabela's as they won't let you handle the gun without the trigger lock on the gun.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Speaking only for myself here...
I would rather "Pay more" at a local shop , than save money buying online.
I do this often with ammo , guns and books....

The local shop is just that...local.
I am helping to keep a store open and he is supplying me with a firearm , ammo , etc...
Works well for me.
Andy

 

[TTSX]

I have long been a proponent of supporting the local and my local FFL can back that up. It's rare I need to order online because I always ask him first if an item is available and if it is, it's usually a very fair price so I just have him order it and bada-boom. I have a gun and he has money. One transaction with zero risk for me, higher profit with fewer hassles for him. Win win. Would say I've purchased literally dozens of guns from him over the years.

 

[TTSX]

Yeah, I haven't ever ordered a firearm online, unless it was the online sites of my three local GS's.

I've used Cabela's, Mazama's and Northwest Arsenal. I tend to avoid Cabela's as they won't let you handle the gun without the trigger lock on the gun.

You really, REALLY need to check out gun pro on main St in Springfield. You'll save money and deal directly with the owners on every transaction.

 

[1911Fanatic]

You really, REALLY need to check out gun pro on main St in Springfield. You'll save money and deal directly with the owners on every transaction.

Well, the last time was last week. I got my new Kimber 1911 from Cabelas

It came out to $542 and change.' The pistol was on sale for like one day. And I got an additional discount. I knew what I was getting in that case.

I've checked Gun Pro. They have nothing on their site. They also don't pick up the phone, or return calls.

 

[TTSX]

Well, the last time was last week. I got my new Kimber 1911 from Cabelas

It came out to $542 and change.' The pistol was on sale for like one day. And I got an additional discount. I knew what I was getting in that case.

I've checked Gun Pro. They have nothing on their site. They also don't pick up the phone, or return calls.

Their website is meaningless. The phone number listed on it is the land line which they have been using to call in backgrounds so it's always busy. I would suggest looking them up on Facebook for the real number or just PM me and I'll give it to you. Their bread and butter is special orders but they do have a couple dozen pistols and another dozen or more rifles on the shelf.

 

[1911Fanatic]

Their website is meaningless. The phone number listed on it is the land line which they have been using to call in backgrounds so it's always busy. I would suggest looking them up on Facebook for the real number or just PM me and I'll give it to you. Their bread and butter is special orders but they do have a couple dozen pistols and another dozen or more rifles on the shelf.

I think I was there once. My friend traded in her Plastic Fantastic for a J Frame.

 

[OregonRider]

I recently bought a G 44. When I priced it out online, adding the shipping and the FFL transfer fee, it was about $400. I ended up buying it at 295 Tactical for $430.
I won't pay outrageous prices to keep it local but thirty bucks is not a big deal to me.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Been a few years, but I think my .410 Shockwave was over $400 .
And I didn't get a stock, or a full length barrel.
Price seems about right for inflation.

 

[TTSX]

Been a few years, but I think my .410 Shockwave was over $400 .
And I didn't get a stock, or a full length barrel.
Price seems about right for inflation.

Yeah, seems reasonable to me. Got my 535 for 450ish a good 6 years or more ago. I mean, it's larger but it's also the same thing for the most part.

 

[1911Fanatic]

I recently bought a G 44. When I priced it out online, adding the shipping and the FFL transfer fee, it was about $400. I ended up buying it at 295 Tactical for $430.
I won't pay outrageous prices to keep it local but thirty bucks is not a big deal to me.

I will be spending some money with Donny this summer.

 

[CLT65]

I'm still pretty cheap, but I used to be a real tightwad. In my opinion, only $40 more is well worth buying from the local guy, as opposed to the hassle of ordering it myself and finding a transfer.

I think for most people it's really more about numbers than it is about money. We all like to feel like we got the best deal. Some guys will squeeze the last dollar out of a deal, and then spend a hundred bucks on dinner on the way home. Nowadays if it's something I want, I don't really care about spending a few extra dollars or getting the very best deal.

You really, REALLY need to check out gun pro on main St in Springfield. You'll save money and deal directly with the owners on every transaction.

Neal is great. I haven't done much business with him in recent years since moving away, but I used to frequent his shop a lot. He was always friendly and honest, highly recommended!

 

[RVTECH]

I think for most people it's really more about numbers than it is about money. We all like to feel like we got the best deal.

I tend to see it a bit differently.

Over the years I have seen 'shipping' evolve as an 'addiction' so to speak.

It seems some do everything online, and often what I read about the outcomes or results are horrendous but as long as the item is being 'shipped' it seems to overcome ANY eventualities, inconveniences or problems.

'Shipping', it seems, is like a religious endeavor for some - and has become an 'ingrained' part of their lives.

 

[arakboss]

$100 bucks is more than $100 bucks if you multiply it times all the purchases a normal family makes. This is partly why Amazon and the like, have become so popular these days. You should have seen the steady stream of complainers I dealt with at the FFL because the online purchase transfer fees went from $25 to $30. The FFL had to pay $10 of that to the State Police.

Most of the firearms I have bought, have been local purchases. Most of them were cheaper than I would have paid online including transfer fees.

 

[Bobbygun]

I will be spending some money with Donny this summer.

Donnie is my go-to for transfers. Always great to deal with him.

 

[kmk1012]

@Decksnipe, sorry your thread got derailed, where are you from? Where is Belfair? Sounds English unfortunately, I hear your sentiments and agree with most of your points.

 

[Oxygen Mask]

@Decksnipe, sorry your thread got derailed, where are you from? Where is Belfair? Sounds English unfortunately, I hear your sentiments and agree with most of your points.

Western WA, a bit SW of Bremerton...

 

[echo1]

I hardly buy from folks these days because I lost my go to 01 FFL. here in Kali. He used to charge $25 bucks for one 4473 with 5 weapons on it, received and DROSd. He's also hold up the paper until I got 5 to process if I asked him. That's how you end up with 45 SKSs. He quit because his memory was starting to slip, and he was afraid he'd screw up the paper. Now the cheapest FFL charges $118 for the first gun, which is a deal breaker for a hunnerd bucks worth of .22. My other 01 that I used for local FTF PPT said he never really made much on a new gun sale, the profit was in used iron and his primary vocation was a locksmith. Both retired now, I really miss them both, PAX