10 mil?

[Martini_Up]

not an excuse. a reason. and even then, you don't need one.... meaning just go buy one

 

[Robo]

You guys realize I used the whole .00000001 chance of getting attacked by a bear as an excuse to get the 10 mm right?

I hate to admit it, but I have used similar excuses to acquire many of guns.

 

[mjbskwim]

You guys realize I used the whole .00000001 chance of getting attacked by a bear as an excuse to get the 10 mm right?

Heck my excuse was for the remote chance of 4 legged animals and 14 rounds for the 2 legged animals.
But I'm not married and the dog never answers when I ask her for permission.

 

[jp1985]

I hate to admit it, but I have used similar excuses to acquire many of guns.

Hahah ditto

 

[The Heretic]

I'm curious. Care to elaborate on this?

I figure that I stand more of a chance of getting a handgun into BC for "personal protection against wildlife in remote areas of Canada" legally if it is a revolver than a semi-auto.

I just looked it up, and apparently Canuckistan prohibits any handgun with a barrel less than 4.15" long. *sigh* That precludes the 329PD I guess.

Oh well, I should be able to take it into Calif. for the near future.

 

[The Heretic]

At a close range with proper shot placement ,yes.
Not what I would rely on though
Heck Fred Bear killed a couple with a recurve.

Hell, a lady in Canada killed a grizzly with a .22 rimfire - doesn't mean I would try it or recommend a rimfire for bear protection.

 

[orygun]

I figure that I stand more of a chance of getting a handgun into BC for "personal protection against wildlife in remote areas of Canada" legally if it is a revolver than a semi-auto.

I just looked it up, and apparently Canuckistan prohibits any handgun with a barrel less than 4.15" long. *sigh* That precludes the 329PD I guess.

Oh well, I should be able to take it into Calif. for the near future.

Yeah, Canada is messed up. Your 44Mag isn't legal, but my Commander length (4.25) 10mm is....? Like that length really matters?
If you're going to CA. Either really pay attention to the laws, or just plan on breaking them.

Canuckistan, Kommiefornia, whatever... None of their laws make much sense.

 

[orygun]

You guys realize I used the whole .00000001 chance of getting attacked by a bear as an excuse to get the 10 mm right?

I'm much more worried about cats than bears around here, but I do appreciate your thinking. I'm comfortable with my .45 against a cat, but why not have a little more power?

 

[The Heretic]

Yeah, Canada is messed up. Your 44Mag isn't legal, but my Commander length (4.25) 10mm is....? Like that length really matters?
If you're going to CA. Either really pay attention to the laws, or just plan on breaking them.

Canuckistan, Kommiefornia, whatever... None of their laws make much sense.

I would maybe fudge Calif. as they don't have checkpoints at their border - yet, but I am not going to pass through a national border checkpoint with an undeclared firearm. I'm not that stupid and I don't want to spend what little time I have left on this earth in prison at worst and at best have a $1000 handgun confiscated.

I will have to actually measure the true length of the barrel from forcing cone to end - maybe it is just barely long enough.

 

[orygun]

I would maybe fudge Calif. as they don't have checkpoints at their border - yet, but I am not going to pass through a national border checkpoint with an undeclared firearm. I'm not that stupid and I don't want to spend what little time I have left on this earth in prison at worst and at best have a $1000 handgun confiscated.

I will have to actually measure the true length of the barrel from forcing cone to end - maybe it is just barely long enough.

Several years ago my folks were traveling into Canada. Dad was asked if he owned any firearms, not did he have any with him, but owned any. ??? He told them that he did, but didn't have any with him. Because he answered yes to the first question, he was asked several more about firearms. It bugged him enough that he told me about it a month later when they came home. THAT's a screwy deal.

S&W is pretty technical about barrel length. I'll bet you've got the 4" you "assume" you do, but I'd be interested in knowing if it was different, too.

 

[mille35]

Lessons from this story:
- assume you will be defending yourself with an animal on top of you.
- auto pistols fail in CQC situations, where a bear is on top of you. It doesn't take much to interfere with the slide and cause a failure to cycle, or hit the mag release in this case. A revolver is simple and robust to dirt, fur, blood, bear slobber, all of which will be on your weapon when you need it most.
- 3-4 shots of .45 cal didn't even phase the bear, 10mm wont be much different. Carry hot .44mag loads
- shot placement is key, you need to penetrate the skull to stop an attack quickly regardless of caliber.

After reading this story I bought a S&W 629 .44mag 5" classic and put it on my chest during bow hunting.




This event took place in the Cascade Mountains of Oregon, back on May 31, 2008:

Pete Mohen decided to take his 15 year-old son, Chris, out hunting for the last day of Bear Season, in the Cascade Mountains of Oregon. Since Chris drew a bear tag, he was quite excited that his dad was going to lead him to his trophy bear on the last day of the season.

Pete and Chris, started early in the morning and had been stalking a black bear for several hours. Finally, they spotted a black bear over a hundred yards away. Pete advised his son to steady his aim after placing his .338 magnum rifle upon the tripod. Chris took steady aim and fired! The shot hit the bear right behind the shoulder. They knew that they hit it, because they observed steam exit the wound immediately afterwards. They were both certain that when they walked over to the next ridge of the Cascade hills, they would find their kill. However, after thoroughly searching the area, they found no bear and not even so much as a sign of blood loss.

Since they were both convinced that Chris hit the bear with magnum force from the .338, they decided to ask a friend with greater hunting experience than they had, to track the bear for them. They therefore, ask Aaron Wyckoff, a 33 year old native of Glide, Oregon, who was an avid Elk and deer hunter. The old friend, and now new bear tracker, often hunted in those very same woods of Oregon, in the Cascade Mountains. After only a few minutes, Aaron and his hunting partner, Justin Norton, find the blood trail of the bear. Aaron and Justin, lead Pete and Chris on a small path, just below the ridge of the mountain, following the bear's trail. However, the trail mysteriously disappeared. Aaron was certain that the bear had to be somewhere nearby. Justin wasn't convinced. Therefore, Aaron walked up the ridge upon a bluff, to get a better view, leaving his tracking party, below.

Aaron hears what sounds like leaves rustling and then a short grunt. Aaron turns around and immediately realizes that the bear has circled around unnoticed. The bear was now steadily moving towards him, stalkingly. Aaron, being the cool and experienced hunter that he is, very calmy and deliberately drew his Llama .45 auto pistol and fired a round directly into the black bear's head. It had no effect! The bear quickened the attack. Suddenly, Aaron found himself covered in bear as he continued to fire three more rounds near the head area of the bear. The bear began biting into Aaron's blocking arm, as he continued to go for Aaron's face. Aaron just kept sticking the pistol (that now won't fire) into the bear's mouth in an attempt to save his face. As Aaron tried to fire his Llama pistol, he realizes that in his panic, he he has inadvertently hit the clip release, while trying to fire. He felt the clip fall onto his chest seconds ago!

Aaron then decides that he will just have to fight the bear off by hand until he can somehow escape. Aaron, then manages to pull himself on top of the bear. While beating the bear from the top, he attempts to dive away to roll down the bluff. However, the bear quickly reaches out and grabs Aaron by the calf and snatches him back underneath, just like a wide receiver retrieving a pass.

Now, Aaron can no longer escape or fire his weapon. He now feels that his only salvation will be his friends, at the foot of the heavily wooded mountain. Therefore, out of sheer desparation, Aaron begins to yell for help.

Justin Norton, his hunting partner, rushes up and fires his .44 into the bears stomach. The bear fails to respond. Justin then, fires his .44 cal behind the bear's ear and directly into the bears head.

Finally, the bear collapses and slowly rolls halfway down the mountain side.

After dressing the 260 lb. bear, it was determined that the .44 caliber round to the head along with one of the .45 cal. rounds, both remained in the bear's head, even after being fired upon at point-blank range.

Let's see, a .338 magnum round just behind the shoulders, four .45 cal. rounds (one directly into the head), and two .44 cal. rounds (one to the belly and one to the head). If my arithmetic serves me correctly, that's seven rounds in the bear. He's still taking vengeance out on Aaron before the seventh round. I can't just believe that! Only after the seventh round head-shot, does the bear finally conclude his attack.

 

[mrblond]

Maybe that bear visited the local meth monkeys before he was shot. In all honestly though I still think that for Oregon, 10mm is a fine sidearm to carry around in the woods. Now, with what else was said, if the side don't work on a semi auto.. well, your bubblegummed.

 

[The Heretic]

while I carry a revolver for protection, I know enough about how a revolver works to know that it is NOT more robust than a combat semi-auto when it comes to being able to handle debris in its inner workings. It usually takes a good gunsmith to setup the timing and other parts of a revolver correctly - or at least someone who has been trained to do it.

Just because something is described as "manual" or "mechanical" doesn't make it more robust. The inner workings of a windup watch or clock are NOT more robust than an electronic one - especially if you get some gunk inside them. If you have ever taken one apart (I have, both a clock and a revolver) you know how complicated they are inside.

 

[The Heretic]

As for animals, they don't know they are supposed to drop dead when shot like people do. They don't watch movies or TV shows where that happens. They don't even know they have been shot. They just know they hurt and possibly they know something is hunting them. They know that if they don't fight back they may hurt more or even die.

 

[n16ht5]

16rds of 10mm suddenly feels better than 6rds of XX caliber

 

[The Heretic]

16rds of 10mm suddenly feels better than 6rds of XX caliber

For heavily built animals with large masses of tough flesh and/or bones, you need a tough projectile with plenty of mass. For dangerous or hard to kill animals, you want to be able to penetrate bone and flesh.

That is why I like the .44 Mag over lesser calibers. It is about the maximum I can handle in a light handgun like the 329PD and yet it can push out a 300 grain projectile at 1200 fps.

For dangerous game like a brown bear, you want to be able to disable them. You might kill them by hitting a vital, but they may still kill you before they die. The general strategy I would use is what I have heard suggested by those who have been attacked; attempt stop their locomotion preventing them from getting to you by shooting first their front shoulders and then rear hips and then go for a kill shot.

There was a guy in Alaska that was attacked by a brown bear. As I recall, his buddy shot the bear in the head, from behind, six times with a .44 mag with std. 240 grain JHP projectiles. This did not work - the skull of the bear stopped the projectiles from penetrating to anything vital.

Almost any handgun is not going to be anywhere near as effective as a rifle, even a .30-30, against a medium to large game animal (100 pounds or larger), and even a rifle doesn't always immediately stop a charge by dangerous game.

[video=youtube_share;0CNgwZgoKFc]http://youtu.be/0CNgwZgoKFc[/video]

So a person with a handgun needs to use different tactics.

 

[Ops]

G20 with 15 rds of 220 hard cast underwood should stop whatever you run into

 

[The Heretic]

I would maybe fudge Calif. as they don't have checkpoints at their border - yet, but I am not going to pass through a national border checkpoint with an undeclared firearm. I'm not that stupid and I don't want to spend what little time I have left on this earth in prison at worst and at best have a $1000 handgun confiscated.

I will have to actually measure the true length of the barrel from forcing cone to end - maybe it is just barely long enough.

I measured with a tape measure (can't find my calipers right now - I am so disorganized) and it roughly measures 4 and an eighth inches, from muzzle to forcing cone, which would be 4.125, just shy of the length requirements for entry into Canada.

Maybe a better measurement would show it longer, or shorter.

I have to wonder why Canada has such an odd measurement for barrel length in their law? Could it be that they measured a bunch of 4" barrels and found them to be just a bit longer than 4", the longest of which was 4.14" so they made that the length in the law so they could preclude more handguns?

The demented and conniving minds of anti-gunners. *sigh*

 

[oli700]

- 3-4 shots of .45 cal didn't even phase the bear, 10mm wont be much different.

cool story, intense and 44mag is sweet, king for a long time but in no way is a 45acp comparable to properly loaded 10mm auto.
200gr at 1250 10mm has more velocity and energy at 100 yards than a 45acp has at the muzzle.
They will pop a griz skull plate, dig around youtube and you will find video of elk being dropped with a Glock 20. Good top end hand loads are right at the low end 41mag ballistics......but you can have 16 10mm in an autoloading pistol that can bath in blood, guts mud and whatever without stoppage

 

[orygun]

Good top end hand loads are right at the low end 41mag ballistics......but you can have 16 10mm in an autoloading pistol that can bath in blood, guts mud and whatever without stoppage

I shot my "new" 10 yesterday for the first time. It was a very quick trip and I didn't take my chrono. I could tell, however, that the American Eagle ammo was very soft. But it's the cheapest (cheaper?) ammo I've found and Federal brass is decent stuff. The Winchester is more like it and the Corbon is something to talk about, but the Corbon ammo has an extremely light, frangible bullet. Not what I'm after. I'm sure it's wonderful ammo for defense against a person, but I want a much tougher bullet.
When I got back home I started digging into the loading manuals. It's gonna take a full boatload of the best powder and heaviest bullet to get this cartridge to where I expect it to be. For now I'm glad I didn't sell off my .41.