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10 mil?

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by Reno911, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    So been out in the Forrest about 4 times now since moving up to the beautiful NW.

    I've been thinking it would be good to carry a worthy JIC pistol.

    Figured it would be best to carry something a little more capable of downing 4 legged and 2 legged predators if needed.

    Not that my G19 doesn't make me feel comfy. It's just that I feel like I may need more. That and I'm in the mood to buy another Glock. Never need a real bad excuse for that one really.

    So any one here got some advice on 10mm?

    Ammo hard to find? It was always on the shelf back in NV.

    Reloading? I would like to see 200 grainers going at good speeds... Can you get them going 1500ish?

    Lead hard cast rounds? What's the fastest they can go?

    Recoil? Does it suck? Manageable?

    Any other worthy pistols to consider? So far the G20 is on my radar. Figured if get that and look to get a case of 500 or so rounds for it as starters and some brass to reload if I feel up to it. It will probably become my hiking gun as well as a good nightstand gun!

    10mm uses large pistol right? Just when I thought I got rid of the need for every primer in existence....

    Oh, and any infos on 9x25? Sounds like a fun one? Be a very interesting home defense round.

    Thanks,

    Reno911
     
  2. 4dogs

    4dogs 3 miles from the range Active Member

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    I got a G29 and started reloading because I couldn't find ammo locally. Sportsman's Warehouse usually has it in stock, though, so it's less of an issue. I load 155 gr Hornady XTP and get in the low 1400s with Accurate #7. I also load a Badman (locally produced) hard cast 180 gr bullet but keep it under 1300 fps. Badman says their alloy can handle up to 1500 fps without leading problems. And yeah, 10 mm uses a large pistol primer. I got rid of the Glocks and got a Rock Island 1911 in 10 mm that I'm very happy with. For truely high performance 10 mm ammo, check out Double Tap.
     
  3. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    10mm is awesome I too have a 29. It’s my conceal carry and my oc woods gun .
    If you buy factory ammo do your research because a majority is a diluted version of what it was meant to be because by the time it hit the market with enough interest from the people to actually get ammo manufactures to retool and make some it had already gone through the transformation to a weaker ammo to accommodate the FBI.
    The initial offering from Norma was too much recoil for some agents so they had it watered down till it was acceptable for everyone. That resulted in the 40S&W but that’s another story.
    Word is Underwood is the only company that holds true to velocity claims of full boat 10mm.
    If you reload you can get that velocity, most data still doesn’t reach that point but gets real close without being on edge, case destroying powerful.
    Your not going to see 200 grains at 1500 fps. Original offerings were 200 grains in the neighborhood of 1250 fps and has more velocity and energy at 100 yards than a 45 acp has at the muzzle. On paper it fills the spot between 357 mag and 41 mag. It can be loaded to match the very lowest 41 mag data.
    The top end published data is still much more powerful than most factory offering.
    That being said most new manufactured 10mm pistols run a stock recoil spring to match the watered down version of ammo because most folks don’t reload so they want to accommodate the majority with spring weight. If you get true power 10mm you will benefit from a change to a heavier recoil spring. It’s easier on the pistol and easier to recover the brass.
    They make extended barrels for the 29 and G20 mags will give you higher capacity basically turning it into a G20 with the exception of the sight radius so the 29 is a fairly versatile choice. I personally load 180 grain in Gold Dot’s, XTP’s and FMJ, using mostly Blue Dot and AA9 for powder.
    I do want to try some Underwood 200 grain hard cast but haven’t yet…..in fact my 29 has never seen a factory load yet.
     
  4. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    So just what in the PNW do you think you will encounter, that would be a threat to you, that you cannot handle with a 9MM?

    Unless you travel well north of I-90 or over into northern ID or into Montana, then a 9MM should be fine for most wild animals in the "forrest".

    There are black bear and cougar, but black bears will almost always run from humans, and cougar pretty much make themselves scarce too. I have lived here for almost 6 decades and have never seen a cougar in the wild - I know they are out there, but rarely do they make their presence known and a 9MM will do in a pinch.

    That said, I do occasionally travel into Montana and northern Washington (I used to live in the latter), and not being one to pass up a chance or have an excuse to buy yet another firearm, I bought a S&W 329PD (lightweight .44 Mag revolver). This is my "field gun" that I wear when I am out in the woods and more concerned about feral dogs, feral pigs, possibly cougar, bears, etc., than I am about humans.

    Since I am not going to get into a firefight with a dog, and a bear needs more "oomph", I chose a .44 Mag revolver. It is lightweight, I can load it with really light or really heavy power ammo, and I like revolvers.

    YMMV
     
  5. metrotps

    metrotps Mountlake Terrace Member

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    My neighbor ask Massad Ayoob about the best auto pistol, for woods encounters in the PNW, when he was speaking here a few years ago, and he said "get a Glock G20 and be safe" enough said in my book.
     
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  6. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    I once lived and worked with a group of 32 Eskimo’s in AK…..they kill polar bears with .22 magnums. Placement is king but hunting an unsuspecting bear is nowhere near defending yourself from a charging bear

    Yeah, but sometimes they don’t. I have been bluff charged by black bear and it will make you piss down your leg. Nothing is ever for sure with a black bear. If you have spent 6 decades in the OR sticks and haven’t seen a cougar you have bad luck or make too much noise . Fact is they are getting way braver and probing town limits, killing easy food since they did away with dog hunting them. I’m 41 and have seen several. They will stock you if they are hungry or interested. An ax will do in a pinch as well.

    Great choice in pistol but a WA bear is no thicker or meaner than an OR bear. A cool thing to try if you can sometime is to use a rodeo calf roping machine. A grizz guide I know in AK bought one with a broke off head for cheap and doubled the rail length. Stand right at the end of the track and try to place as many bullets on it as you can. It is very tough and although a 44 is great, it has more recoil than a 10 and tougher to get back on target, and it only carries six, one good shot is enough but getting six out fast at a charging object isn’t as easy as it sounds. A 10mm carrying 16 rounds is easier to get back on target, and shoots much faster making it a formidable choice for a charging animal. 200 grain HC will pop a Grizz skull plate, a 9mm will not. Unless you get a lucky shot on a bear in a charge with a 9mm , presenting only his head and chest, likely you will end up mauled. Bears are extremely tough, and many times have mauled people before they die.
    Kinda weird you tell the op a 9mm will work but you carry a 44…

    Get the 10mm Reno, it is an excellent balance between power, capacity and control….fast to load as well.
    It is also a reloaders dream and has about the widest variety of loads and projectile weight out there
     
  7. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Thanks for all the tips and points. I'll likely get the 20 and a lone wolf barrel. I will certainly order up some brass for loading. I would love to see how fast I can push some heavy lead.

    No one here convert theirs to 9x25 for fun? I'm curious to here some data on that one. I was thinking 124 corps would hussle pretty quickly.
     
  8. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    never have, or even shot one. I hear they are mean as hell but always been happy with the 10....
     
  9. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    WA bears are tougher than Orygun bears - when they are Brown Bears (Grizzly).

    There are no Brownies in Orygun that I know of. Until a few years ago there were no Browns south of I-90 (there was a report of one in Rainier NP). The most likely threat in the woods west of the Cascades is feral or unaccompanied dogs and almost any .44 Mag load is more than adequate for them.

    I carry the 329PD because I prefer a revolver for general field use (survival hunting if I get lost/injured, admin of a coup de grace, low threat self-protection, signalling). I can use it to hunt if I have to, I can load it with really light loads (hard cast light bullets over dacron filling over a small load of Bullseye) for small game. I can load it with medium loads for self-defense against most threats in Orygun.

    I own the 329PD because it is more versatile than a .357 Mag revolver and periodically I do stray into areas north of my normal area of operation where there are Brown bears and moose - i.e., northern WA, ID, Montana, B.C..

    I usually don't carry a firearm on my person. I more often carry a rimfire firearm than a centerfire if I carry anything in the field.

    I just do not encounter threats or go where there are risks very often. When I worked in Alaska and Montana I would carry a DW .44 Mag when in the field, but it was too heavy IMO so a few years back I got the S&W instead. The biggest threat in Alaska is moose not bears and their threat can usually be avoided if you are aware of it.

    To each their own. Personally I think of most semi-auto centerfire pistols as self-defense against other humans and in a pinch they serve fine (IMO) against most wild or feral animal threats. I just don't fear bears or cougars that much - IMO a feral or unaccompanied dog is a much more likely threat, one I have encountered a number of times.
     
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  10. evltwn

    evltwn Gold Hill Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I've lived in prime bear and cougar country since '62, and have seen 3 bears and one cougar, total. The bears ran away faster than I did, and the cougar appeared to be just passing through, lounged under a tree for a couple of hours, and left. A neighbor lost a few sheep years ago to a cougar, and a guvment hunter sent it to the after life.

    I will stick with my .44 mag. If I can hit it, it will go down.
     
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  11. oli700

    oli700 Rogue Valley Well-Known Member

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    truth on the moose......I was totally unaware of Grizz in WA. I don't fear them either, however I do respect them very much. first time I ever experienced a 10mm was when I ran across a guy who killed two cow moose that was kicking his dog around his yard, one shot each. I saw the pistol sitting on the hood of his truck and asked what he shot them with. He nodded to the Glock on his hood.....I had to have one lol
     
  12. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    In NV I've run across my share of Black Bear. Only once did I have to fire a shot at the ground to get the bear to run.

    Not once anywhere have I seen a lion. However I imagine if they wanted you to see them, you would know.

    That warning was with a NEF single shot 12g. I'm thinking carrying a shotgun slung around my back here may look too "poacher" like. Back in NV it was never an issue as lots of folks shotgun hunted coyotes and jack rabbits.

    So I like the idea of being able to take down something larger than me JIC. That and like I said. It's never a bad idea to get another Glock.
     
  13. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, more people and dogs are killed by moose than bear.

    What is the natural enemy/predator of a moose?

    Wolves.

    So many people have a good sized dog (often a malamute, husky, etc.) in Alaska, and often it is for the perceived threat of a grizzly. They take it for a walk in the bush, and they encounter a lot more moose than bears. What happens? The moose tries to stomp the dog (often a barking dog, sometimes the dog tries to chase the moose), especially if it is a cow moose with calves. Sometimes the owner tries to get into the fray, to disengage or protect the dog (what dog owner is going to sit back and let a moose stomp the innards out of their dog?) and they get hurt or killed too.

    Every year it seems, one of the sled races has one more moose encounters.

    Sometimes dogs are not involved, it is simply a human/moose encounter.

    The rest of the injuries and deaths are due to collisions with vehicles.

    Bear encounters/etc. are comparatively rare.

    More people in the USA die from bee stings than rattlesnake bites - by far - and yet it seems everybody and their dog is shooting every snake they see in the wild.

    More people die or are injured by dogs (feral or not) - by far - than by wolves, bears or cougars, and yet everyone is worried about cougars, bears and even wolves.

    Go to Africa, you are going to worry about lions, leopards, crocs and such?

    Hippos kill a lot more people (2900) than any of the predators. Mosquitoes kill the most (by spreading malaria).

    In Russia, 100 people per year are killed by icicles.

    So no, I don't worry too much about wild animals when I am out and about.

    dorothy-big.jpg
     
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  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    They are out there, but encountering them is fairly rare.

    I have petted and played a little with a cougar - but it was raised from a cub by a friend. Nonetheless, it left a bruise on my arm when it got a little too rambunctious - they are very strong.

    I have seen a lynx in the wild - it was nonchalantly crossing a backroad in the Cascades of WA state.

    In Alaska I saw both brown and black bear sign, but never the animals themselves. Saw plenty of moose.
     
  15. glockman99

    glockman99 Hoquiam, WA. Active Member

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    Get your self a Glock 20SF. I have one, and it's the best pistol (among many) that I have owned. I don't reload, so I have it loaded with 17 rounds of the 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty ammo, backed up with 16 rounds of 180 Buffalo Bore 180 grain JHP.

    DJF_8108.jpg
     
  16. idahoan

    idahoan Boise, Idaho Active Member

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    If I thought that I was in territory where my 9mm was not powerful enough I would take my AR Pistol in 300 blackout. 30 rounds > 18 rounds, 2500 fps > 1200 fps.
     
  17. kukusya

    kukusya King County Wa Active Member

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    Take a look at EAA Witness Hunter or Match or any 1911 in 10 mm. Good accurate guns past 25yards, more weight less recoil.
     
  18. metrotps

    metrotps Mountlake Terrace Member

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  19. Reno911

    Reno911 Hillsboro Well-Known Member 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Thanks for the links. I'm looking to go with a SF model. I'll probably just order one from buds. I want to feel up a Gen 4 1st. If it feels better than the SF I'll get that instead.
     
  20. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

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    Thought I'd want a SF too but got a regular 20 and I like it.