You think .gov doesn’t know? They know…..

[drunkunicorn]

Oh and even more interesting, the letter states it was seized in mid-2018 so WTF have they been doing for 4 1/2 years?

That's the backlog and incompetence of them tracing the gun to you. If we've ever filled out a 4473, they know. Problem is the pencil pushers will take their damn time to dig up the paper trail to trace a firearm.

How do I know? I worked in two gun stores - one a small regional chain (not as large as say Sportsman's) and one independent - in two different states for several years and there were trace requests and other misc gun ownership/stolen issues that were unresolved from the time I was a new hire until the time I left, at both locations!

 

[Cavedweller]

Here's the kicker, the government isn't violating the 4th amendment doing this. As they have 0 participation in the collection of data. Private firms collect the information via user agreements, like the one we all agreed to joining NWFA or getting hooked up for electricity from the local provider.

The government then either buys this information as a product from the company or requests it. Most user agreements for private companies state they are under no requirement to tell you if a governing agency asks for your information.

This is true. There are private companies that do nothing but compile databases of the names, addresses, phone numbers, whatever financial data they can gather, and other information they can find on not only individuals but also business entities. These databases are marketed to various customers, often to businesses for use as sales leads. But certain government agencies also buy these databases, not so much to get the info, but to be able to provide it to others. Government agencies are often forbidden by statute, due to confidentiality rules and/or privacy laws, from divulging any information they collect from the public in the course of their normal business. But nothing prevents them from purchasing one of these private databases and then disseminating that information. If there is any consolation, these private databases are massive, but tend to be full of inaccuracies and errors, as well as being poorly and infrequently updated. The sellers are more concerned with volume of listings than the accuracy thereof.

If it was properly transferred at the time of sale my name shouldn't be associated with it.

Are you sure? If you transfer thru an FFL they must record the name and address of both buyer and seller. As long as there is no gap between manufacturer, distributor, original purchaser, and final owner (such as a transfer in a state where private transfers are allowed) they should be able to trace a chain of custody. Maybe you were the last legal owner they were able to find?

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Of course the government knows.
If it was only just a background check then.....
All that would be needed to know was if the buyer was legal to own a firearm.
And no need at all for the make , model and serial number of the firearm to be stated.
Andy

 

[deadeye]

Oh and even more interesting, the letter states it was seized in mid-2018 so WTF have they been doing for 4 1/2 years?

The ATF or local leos are on the ball, it only took that long.......... The ATF has been pretty busy rewriting their rules lately ya know...........

 

[deadeye]

so if you used an FFL to transfer the gun when you sold it, why arent they contacting that new owner instead?

Most likely when he tells them it was sold then the post office will turn it over to the ATF or some other leo. They went with the first purchaser from new, when told he sold it and it isn't his ATF or ? will probably try to contact and get info on who it was sold to. Of course Ya just tell them to pound sand or just say "can't remember" After all most likely before oct. 2015 so maybe no BGC. They went with the start of the trail now they're going to have to get off their collective duffs and do some real work........... shouldn't take more than ten more years to find out who owns it .

 

[Mightybeav]

I don't think there is an easy way to trace a firearm beyond the original retail sale. The chain of possession (using the serial number) is clear from the Mfg, to the original dealer to the original buyer. Any subsequent sale is not traceable unless they are keeping a searchable database on either a state or national basis.

 

[Alexx1401]

Oh and even more interesting, the letter states it was seized in mid-2018 so WTF have they been doing for 4 1/2 years?

WTF? So they have been holding the damn thing for that many years and just now contacted you? Only the Gov could screw things up this bad. Makes me picture some huge warehouse they must have with stuff they have stored like this that we pay to have people keep track of.

 

[GWS]

If it was properly transferred at the time of sale my name shouldn't be associated with it. Which is interesting because I'm 99% sure what FFL I used to do the sale transfer and they're a pretty big outfit.

Either way, the specialist is on vacation until Monday according to her VM so I can't do anything until then. When I call on Monday I'm going to let her know the firearm isn't mine and hasn't been in years and they can do what they want with it.

The routing that @deadeye described is spot on, Ruger sold it to XYZ Distributor who sold it to ABC Guns who sold it to you. ATF gets their hit and you get the call. They usually aren't able to track past the original buyer. So you say, Sorry, I sold it to some guy years ago. If you actually can remember when you sold it, who you sold it to and where you sold it they can advance 1 step but frankly, I make it a point to not get to know who I sold a gun to. Once it's in the transfer FFL's hands, I'm done with it and since the buyers have all passed their BGC's, I no longer care about the details.

so if you used an FFL to transfer the gun when you sold it, why arent they contacting that new owner instead?

Because the ATF doesn't know that the FFL you sold it through had the gun.

 

[po18guy]

I received a letter today in the mail from a USPS Forfeiture Specialist. Strange I know.

Apparently, a Ruger LCP that I bought years ago and sold years ago was found in Atlanta Georgia by USPS. They knew it was purchased by me apparently because they mailed this letter and have my name and address correct. The form states a Ruger LCP and 2 mags along with the serial number. The value they assessed is $79.37. There is a form I can fill out to try and claim it as my property. It's not, hasn't been in years so I'm not going to pursue this past a phone call tomorrow to let them know the firearm hasn't been mine in quite some time.

The point is, they know. If you have ever filled out a 4473, they got you.

And that is why they are killing private sales.

 

[Member 52301]

THEY (.gov folks.) know who bought what if the buyer completed a Form 4473 with an FFL dealer.

That is old news and I do not know any person including myself who did not believe that ALL OF THOSE ATF FORMS were/are DATA BASES of firearm owners.

Everyone knows that there are huge data bases on us with the .gov folks and with other NON .gov companies. THEY (BOARD OF ELECTIONS in many states.) EVEN SELL your voter information and not just to potential candidates/parties but to other companies. Been there - done that - old news and posts.

OLD NEWS and that IS a fact. You can look up your own name or other people on many websites and not just with the Board of Elections. I looked up my sister in FL online (Simple search and NOT with the B of E.) because I could not remember the exact zipcode, etc. and found her online in less than 2 minutes including her political affiliation and AGE - other stuff too. And she has NO landline as I do and only a cellular telephone. Many different companies for her telephone too. She had several telephone numbers in her lifetime as an adult.

One other thing, you can't always TRUST White Pages online even if you tell them to FIX their incorrect information for years. Plus you can't trust some other information websites but some you can - sort of. LOL

I do not believe that the FFL dealers (Small and large businesses.) that went OUT of business and turned all of their paperwork over to the ATF upon their closing ever had any of that former/old paperwork destroyed within so many years as we have been told too.

And if the FFL dealer is still IN BUSINESS - his records are right there - easy to go through the old way with paperwork and/or via a computer.

I am not shocked to hear this story but it is strange since he sold his gun through an FFL dealer. The serial numbers would just go on and on and ON!

I do wonder if the NEW buyer of the old-former gun of the OP's was contacted by any agency. If it was sold through an FFL dealer - his name would be on the form and on the 'books' too.

I wonder HOW the USPS found this gun. Through the mail? On the ground? In the trash like 'Hunter's gun' that the Secret Service and/or police found?

The TIME FRAME is interesting too. It took them how long?! LOL

Well, there have been tons of stories where various USPS MAIL CARRIERS dumped MAIL on the ground, in the woods, in their OWN HOME, in their garage, tried to destroy PILES OF MAIL, etc. Plus tons of USPS mail theft just like with FED EX and UPS packages/mail.

We have had tons of mail theft in this region and NOT just missing or lost mail AND very slow mail that made the national news too. Tons of complaints there by MT citizens.

This is an interesting post and I would NOT want the gun back as the OP said that he did not want it back too.

If the gun could TALK and tell the rest of the story ala PAUL HARVEY (?) - it would be interesting. Someone said that a TV show was made about a GUN and it's own personal history on this forum or on another forum (?) some time ago. I did not see the 'show' about it myself.

Cate

 

[TTSX]

Jeez, back when parking lot deals were legal, I sold guns to people I didn't even know the name of for cash. Can't wait to get mail on those ones.

"Sir, we found your extra tactical .22 bullpup with a laser in a dumpster on the Maine border. It's jammed up pretty bad."
.... Crap I thought I could leave that embarrassment behind me.

 

[Member 52301]

Almost ALL (99.9%) of my former guns and my husband's former guns were sold through an FFL dealer.

We used a full in store CREDIT - consignment deal to buy something else in a gun or any other item. Especially when WE were downsizing and doing a MASSIVE caliber consolidation for his and her guns.

Back east for me (ALL bought NIB through an FFL dealer.) and the same out here for both of us.

I can remember almost (?) all of the stores - dealers that sold our guns too. I do not know the personal names of the buyers (I did not care since it was the FFL man's JOB!) shy of a couple of them who bought our consignment guns in former now closed stores and still open stores.

ALL of the firearms (NIB) in this home were bought through an FFL dealer.

We are on a zillion lists. I don't LIKE the lists but if there was something in the past or present that he or I wanted - we got it.

Old Lady Cate

 

[Member 52301]

The routing that @deadeye described is spot on, Ruger sold it to XYZ Distributor who sold it to ABC Guns who sold it to you. ATF gets their hit and you get the call. They usually aren't able to track past the original buyer. So you say, Sorry, I sold it to some guy years ago. If you actually can remember when you sold it, who you sold it to and where you sold it they can advance 1 step but frankly, I make it a point to not get to know who I sold a gun to. Once it's in the transfer FFL's hands, I'm done with it and since the buyers have all passed their BGC's, I no longer care about the details.

Because the ATF doesn't know that the FFL you sold it through had the gun.

I thought that the serial number would go ON and on and on with each specific sale or transfer - FFL to a new buyer and on and on.

And that the ATF would know that the FFL man sold that specific gun to ANOTHER BUYER.

Interesting. I am speaking about your BOTTOM sentence in this post of yours.

Thanks and take care!

Cate

 

[MountainGirl]

WTF? So they have been holding the damn thing for that many years and just now contacted you? Only the Gov could screw things up this bad. Makes me picture some huge warehouse they must have with stuff they have stored like this that we pay to have people keep track of.

 

[Flopsweat]

View attachment 1329989

Gonna take Harrison Ford to find that sucker.

 

[bradsteen]

1st gen LCP??

 

[Kruel J]

1st gen LCP??

View attachment 1330199

Yup!

 

[osprey]

1st gen LCP??

A former co-worker and devout Glock hater brought one of those in to show me years ago. I handled it and dry fired it a couple times and then asked asked him how he could despise Glocks so much and abide by that little pos. It's trigger made a glock trigger feel like a 1911's comparitively.

 

[Kruel J]

A former co-worker and devout Glock hater brought one of those in to show me years ago. I handled it and dry fired it a couple times and then asked asked him how he could despise Glocks so much and abide by that little pos. It's trigger made a glock trigger feel like a 1911's comparitively.

It had something like a 16 pound trigger pull. I despised it. And now the damn thing won't leave me alone!

 

[Flopsweat]

A former co-worker and devout Glock hater brought one of those in to show me years ago. I handled it and dry fired it a couple times and then asked asked him how he could despise Glocks so much and abide by that little pos. It's trigger made a glock trigger feel like a 1911's comparitively.

Even the P3AT, after which it seems to be patterned, has a better trigger and it's a Kel-Tec!