You think .gov doesn’t know? They know…..

[titsonritz]

It had something like a 16 pound trigger pull. I despised it. And now the damn thing won't leave me alone!

An example of how life's poor decisions can come back to haunt you.

 

[Kruel J]

An example of how life's poor decisions can come back to haunt you.

Amen to that!

 

[Flopsweat]

An example of how life's poor decisions can come back to haunt you.

Her name was Lola
She was a showgirl

 

[titsonritz]

Her name was Lola
She was a showgirl

 

[Flopsweat]

 

[gmerkt]

The routing that @deadeye described is spot on, Ruger sold it to XYZ Distributor who sold it to ABC Guns who sold it to you. ATF gets their hit and you get the call. They usually aren't able to track past the original buyer. So you say, Sorry, I sold it to some guy years ago. If you actually can remember when you sold it, who you sold it to and where you sold it they can advance 1 step but frankly, I make it a point to not get to know who I sold a gun to. Once it's in the transfer FFL's hands, I'm done with it and since the buyers have all passed their BGC's, I no longer care about the details.

When private sales were still legal in Wash. state, it was my practice to get a name and address from whom I was selling to. Not so much because of the "known felon" thing, because I had no way of checking on that. Rather it was to ensure that I wasn't selling to an out of state buyer, a violation of federal law. Which I did have the ability to check on. If the gun was such that it wasn't "on paper" to me, I might've been less devout. But a gun on paper to me, I wanted to be able to answer the question, "Who was the buyer" should it come up. And it did, once. So far. Hundreds of guns have gone through my hands over the years, probability has it that it would happen.

These days, with I-594 in effect, my transactions are all going through an FFL dealer. I really don't care who or where it's going knowing that the dealer is doing the screening and keeping the books. Most of the notes that I keep on dispositions since I-594 just say my dealer's name and address. If an LEO came to my door asking about one of these guns that have been sold this way, I'd just refer him to my dealer. As I see it, that's part of the service derived from the transfer fee paid. Just like when you get in a car wreck, you tell them to call you insurance provider. With a firearm transfer through FFL dealer, if he writes it up to a felon, that's his problem.

Because the ATF doesn't know that the FFL you sold it through had the gun.

I think the above pretty clearly describes the situation, from my limited knowledge.

Yes, there are all kinds of data bases. Like in Wash. state, the Dept. of Licensing keeps a record of everything that goes through their office, from handgun sales to barbering licenses. But do I believe there are classified or secret federal data bases specifically for gun sales? I don't think so. Where they exist, they are not secret. My opinion and I'm open to being proven wrong.

As far as I know, there is no federal computerized mechanism to link subsequent sales of firearms after they are sold new. Yes, the ATF can dig through 4473's if it's an important investigation, like homicide, but that's all separate, localized work, not centralized. How do they find original buyers if there is no federal database to connect subsequent sales? Other data bases and the figurative phone book. When it involves federal agencies, it's easy enough for them to get information from the IRS, that's usually pretty current.

Side bar. The US Postal Inspection Service is a stand-alone, federal law enforcement agency. They don't need to "call the cops" to make inquiries, dispose of "lost" firearms, etc.

 

[American123]

I received a letter today in the mail from a USPS Forfeiture Specialist. Strange I know.

Apparently, a Ruger LCP that I bought years ago and sold years ago was found in Atlanta Georgia by USPS. They knew it was purchased by me apparently because they mailed this letter and have my name and address correct. The form states a Ruger LCP and 2 mags along with the serial number. The value they assessed is $79.37. There is a form I can fill out to try and claim it as my property. It's not, hasn't been in years so I'm not going to pursue this past a phone call tomorrow to let them know the firearm hasn't been mine in quite some time.

The point is, they know. If you have ever filled out a 4473, they got you.

The question isn't whether they know or not, it is what someone is willing to do about if it becomes necessary to fulfill their obligation to this country and the constitution, to prevent tyranny.

 

[bpyycpyy]

I'd be suspicious of a setup/test scenario. My previous FFL told me a story of a gun that crossed through his books (I think on it's way to TX) and then he saw it again in a very short while and made for an unusual situtation. Made him wary and questioned the person picking it up and he sorta admitted that it was an ATF gun. His opinion was that the ATF was doing some various testing on FFL's to ensure laws and such were being met and that they screwed up by passing it through his books twice. Maybe some unnamed organization is doing a little feeling out process to see how this situation is handled...

 

[The Heretic]

I'd be suspicious of a setup/test scenario. My previous FFL told me a story of a gun that crossed through his books (I think on it's way to TX) and then he saw it again in a very short while and made for an unusual situtation. Made him wary and questioned the person picking it up and he sorta admitted that it was an ATF gun. His opinion was that the ATF was doing some various testing on FFL's to ensure laws and such were being met and that they screwed up by passing it through his books twice. Maybe some unnamed organization is doing a little feeling out process to see how this situation is handled...

My first knee jerk response was that someone was pretending to be the USPS to get the $$ sent to them. Not sure how that would work as the scammer would need to have access to the records that they should not have access to - but I am always suspicious when someone asks for $$ out of the blue like that.

 

[Kruel J]

I was suspicious as well, but after a few phone calls and some verification from @Velzey in regards to the notice (he has a friend who is a PMG for USPS) I'm fairly certain this is legit.

 

[ktgee]

Seem like a setup. You claim it and you might be responsible for federal violations of shipping of a handgun without a license and interstate transportation of firearm and transfering a gun without FFL background check. It seem to be that they couldn't find the anybody to claim the gun cause nobody want to be responsible. Not only that, the gun might had been used in a crime.

 

[Kruel J]

Seem like a setup. You claim it and you might be responsible for federal violations of shipping of a handgun without a license and interstate transportation of firearm and transfering a gun without FFL background check. It seem to be that they couldn't find the anybody to claim the gun cause nobody want to be responsible. Not only that, the gun might had been used in a crime.

I posted a couple times earlier that I will NOT be claiming it. I sold it years ago so it's not mine and I don't want it back.

I'm calling the specialist Monday, I have confirmed the name and phone number are real. We'll see how it goes.

 

[The Heretic]

Seem like a setup. You claim it and you might be responsible for federal violations of shipping of a handgun without a license and interstate transportation of firearm and transfering a gun without FFL background check. It seem to be that they couldn't find the anybody to claim the gun cause nobody want to be responsible. Not only that, the gun might had been used in a crime.

Yeah - I had the FBI come back on me several years after they started an investigation, wanting $$$$$ in fines, when they couldn't find the people they really wanted. Got off with paying $300.

 

[Hueco]

so if you used an FFL to transfer the gun when you sold it, why arent they contacting that new owner instead?

I would assume because the trail stopped at KJ.

Get Serial, call Ruger. Ruger moves them onto to Distro. Distro to Shop. Shop to KJ.

The only way it goes further is if KJ advises of the transfer at Shop 2 and then Uncle Sam calls Shop 2 and the research continues.

All records are searchable, else they wouldn't be "records" - but this story gives me some hope. It took someone years to track down purchaser #1 - arguably the easiest one to track down. Think about if that LCP was sold privately (with 4473's) another 3 or 4 times.

And if it was sold privately without a 4473? Trail is dead.

 

[orygun]

Hell, I'd take the gun back! Don't want it, sell it again!

 

[Kruel J]

Hell, I'd take the gun back! Don't want it, sell it again!

If I were to try and go down that road, I have to provide proof that it's my firearm on the claim form. I have no way to do so, no receipt or otherwise.

Nope, I don't care what they do with it.