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WSJ - More Killings Called Self-Defense

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by ATCclears, Mar 30, 2012.

  1. ATCclears

    ATCclears Seattle area, WA Well-Known Member

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    News Alert
    from The Wall Street Journal

    At a time when the overall U.S. homicide rate is declining, more civilians are killing each other and claiming self-defense—a trend that is most pronounced in states with new "stand your ground" laws.

    These laws, which grant people more leeway to attack and even kill someone who is threatening them, are attracting close scrutiny following February's controversial killing of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin in Florida by a neighborhood watchman.

    So-called justifiable homicides nearly doubled from 2000 to 2010, the most recent data available, when 326 were reported, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of crime statistics from all 50 states.

    More Killings Called Self-Defense - WSJ.com
     
  2. badclam

    badclam willapa bay Sunny SW WA Active Member

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    Interesting,but when you consider we kill about 30,000 people in this country each year with car's, or to put it in perspective. For every 1 justifiable homicide, 92 people are killed in car wrecks.
    I have no doubt many if not most of the justifiable homicides were just that. With meth addiction reaching plague levels in this country, increased financial need for maintaining the addiction is leading to more violence. More violence from the bad guys is leading to more preparedness from the good guys = more bad guys shot. I think it is a states issue on where to draw the lines on the use of lethal force.

    Want to really save some lives? Make our highways safer!
     
  3. Rascals

    Rascals Portland Or Active Member

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    At a time when the overall U.S. homicide rate is declining, more civilians are killing each other and claiming self-defense—a trend that is most pronounced in states with new "stand your ground" laws.

    Well theres your proof of whats going on.

    Well if you ask me then it must be working and we need to keep doing it. Im going to protect myself and family if I have to use a Spork. If the thugs dont like it to bad.
     
  4. mat33

    mat33 Portland, OR Active Member

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    Better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. This is especially true in cases of murder when the consequences of a conviction are so severe.
     
  5. Hardwood floor guy

    Hardwood floor guy Beaverton Active Member

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    i'd rather be judged by 12 then burried by 6.
     
  6. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    I do not mind if some people die, as long as they are the right ones. We are all the safer for that
     
  7. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    "A single death is a tragedy, a million deaths is a statistic." J. Stalin

    Statistics can be arranged to say whatever you want, depending on how you ask the questions and "expand" the categories. Think of the Brady Bunch and their definition of "children"....
     
  8. dtcgc32

    dtcgc32 central oregon Member

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    if you are willing to commit a crime against a fellow citizen then you should be willing to die for that crime. That is the risk you take for being a POS
     
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  9. enjr4

    enjr4 Renton, WA Active Member

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    I have a question for the author of that article. Wish I could ask all these nutjob authors questions!

    How many of those self defense shootings would have ended in the nonjustifiable homicide of the shooter if the shooter had not defended his/her self?

    Ed
     
  10. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    This means that another statistic is going down.....the good guys dying.
    All this can mean is that less people are willing to be victims and are fighting back.

    But that would send the theme of the article in the wrong direction,huh?
     
  11. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    What we have to remember is that most of the perpetrates of violent crimes know they may die,and are OK with that risk to get their end.

    Forget this and we are the statistic.
     
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  12. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    The truth is they do not care.. only the attacker matters. This is literally another communist-totalitarian concept bent on disarming us.. the end goal is the disempowerment of we the people and our deaths and/or enslavement depending on whether we resist. We need to start speaking the truth boldly on this and calling these "feel good monsters" out
     
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    That or they are so violently insane they cannot reason. Either way they are not fit to remain at large
     
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  14. madman48

    madman48 Vancouver,WA Member

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    The greatest emphasis in the article was that firearms were used to kill, but the actual statistics were not disected. I am not the most educated man here I am sure. but these questions come to my mind.

    "So-called justifiable homicides nearly doubled from 2000 to 2010, the most recent data available, when 326 were reported, according to a Wall Street Journal analysis of crime statistics from all 50 states".

    Perhaps they doubled because people started defending themselves, in many cases, becasue it was now legal to. When the law denies you the right of self defense, the law abiding citizen can not stand his ground for any reason, with the law backin us, who in their right mind would defend themselves with anything less than a firearm. It would defeat the purpose.

    "Over that same 11-year period, total killings averaged roughly 16,000 a year, according to the state figures, which the Journal obtained from the FBI and from Florida".

    So, of 16000 killings, 326 were reported as justifiable. That is 2%. How many of the 16000 would not have happened if they were capable of defending themselves properly.

    "In about 60 percent of justifiable-homicide cases in which the relationship between victim and killer was known, the pair were strangers. This differs sharply from nonjustifiable cases, where more than three-fourths of victims knew their killers."

    What exactly is the point of the statements there? 75% of nonjustifiable homicides happen because the victem didn't know they needed to defend themselves, and 60% of justifiable homicides happend because the victem was wary and therefore prepared to defend themselves? As I stated here, let us not forget, just because we defended ourselves, we are not any less a victem. We are just physically unharmed victems. In some cases, those who succesfully defend themselves using deadly force become PTSD victems and suffer anyway.

    "Firearms were used in more than 80 percent of justifiable cases. In nonjustifiable cases, guns were used about 65 percent of the time".

    In the case of the justifiable homicide, that 80 percent using firearms very likely kept them from being part of the nonjustifiable homicide statistics. How many homicides DIDN'T happen because the victem had a gun?



    "For decades, many states embraced the "Castle Doctrine," the principle that a person's home is their castle and they are generally within their rights to defend themselves, even with deadly force, against intruders.

    A wave of "stand your ground" laws, including Florida's in 2005, expanded the doctrine to include places outside the home.

    Five of the states that enacted "stand your ground" laws during the past decade -- Kansas, Alabama, Mississippi, Montana and West Virginia -- reported no significant change in justifiable homicides. In Michigan, which passed its law in 2006, they fell.

    Overall, the figures show the sharpest increase in justifiable homicides occurred after 2005, when Florida and 16 other states passed the laws.

    While the overall homicide rates in those states stayed relatively flat, the average number of justifiable cases per year increased by more than 50 percent in the decade's latter half, the data show.

    In Texas and Georgia, such cases nearly doubled and in Florida, they nearly tripled".

    When the law changed in Florida, I read that it was proposed due to looting after the huricanes. Many of the states that saw the increases were among the worst hit by natural disaster over that time span, so I am wondering, how many of the justifiable homicides were related to an increase in criminal behavior during and after the disaster?


    "Meanwhile, in states that saw no change in their self-defense laws, justifiable homicides reported to the FBI stayed nearly flat after a slight uptick in the middle decade".

    And in that time, in those states, what were the non-justifiable numbers?



    The article - Self-Defense Killings Up from 2000-2010
     
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  15. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    63% of all statistics are made up.
     
  16. Glockman19

    Glockman19 Hillsboro Active Member

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    Are you using a stat to discredit stats????:lolbeat::laugh:
     
  17. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    63% chance this is correct?
     
  18. Gunner3456

    Gunner3456 Salem Well-Known Member

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    71% chance. :)
     
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  19. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    Deliberate slant from the so-called journalist.