Wolves in the crosshairs

[Oregonhunter5]

We still have a cougar problem.
ODFW admits there are over 5,500 cougars in Oregon,
An adult cougar kills an average of 2 deer or 1 elk every 3 weeks.

Do the math

The poaching issue isn't that bad. Everyone likes a great urban legend. If it is getting out of hand, it's in the most isolated rural areas.

 

[JRuby]

i suspect its worse that many think.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Not all farmers / ranchers need to destroy the environment to successfully raise beef on thier own property. Maybe you did not know that

I know more than you'll ever know about ranching.
But since your feeling cocky, tell me what ranchers do to destroy the land. What are farmers doing to destroy the land?
?????

 

[USAF Medic]

I actually did have an Oregon wolf in my crosshairs, once.

I was out deer hunting in the Blue Mountains S of Heppner. A doe ran out of a patch of brush in front of me and I got my rifle up thinking a buck might be coming up next. However it turned out to be a coyote chasing her. I thought I might shoot him instead, then looked again. Damn, that was a really big coyote! Never saw one that big. By the time I stopped dithering around he was gone.

Two weeks later there was a news story in the Whoregonian that a wolf had been hit and killed on a highway about 5 miles from there.

It got so bad in Wyoming (the state government refused to knuckle under to federal demands about wolf management - hmmm, I wonder where that is in the constitution?) that people started driving around, throwing poisoned hot dogs out of their windows.

Don't worry, government will always come to the conclusion it makes more sense to have paid wildlife bureaucrats managing of wolf populations, than it does for hunters to do it for free. Needless to say, other government employees (judges, attorneys, etc.) also love the controversy, as they make a lot of money out of it. Call it a jobs program.

If caught someone throwing poisoned meat out of their car, I'd shoot the B%&#rds in a heartbeat!

 

[Jamie6.5]

If caught someone throwing poisoned meat out of their car, I'd shoot the B%&#rds in a heartbeat!

Why? Does doing that somehow make you better than them?

 

[USAF Medic]

Why? Does doing that somehow make you better than them?

My Brittany Spaniel, and all other hunting dogs are more important than any low life that has put out poisoned meat...

 

[JRuby]

i grew up raising cattle so on that subject i have some experience. We raised them our own property nit public lands provided as entitlements as taxpayerv handouts.

Lets see fencing isnt good for native big game like what we find in our game units.

Cattle destroying and polluting rivers

Wolves being pushed out of an area for personal gain.

Where there are cattle elk have stiffer competition for food.Greater pressure.

hows that

 

[Oregonhunter5]

i grew up raising cattle so on that subject i have some experience. We raised them our own property nit public lands provided as entitlements as taxpayerv handouts.

Lets see fencing isnt good for native big game like what we find in our game units.

Cattle destroying and polluting rivers

Wolves being pushed out of an area for personal gain.

Where there are cattle elk have stiffer competition for food.Greater pressure.

hows that

So your hobby farm growing up on 10 acres is a ranchers life?
Good grief.
Don't forget to vote for Killary.

 

[JRuby]

I am not against all ranchers only those that suck at the public teat. On thier own property I support them fully even to the point of supporting with physical labor
i have herded my meoghbors cattle when they get out and helped them bale hay, i ensure the cow tanks have water
if asked for help byy neighbot i would be there in a second but they have thiet own propery. To me that is a crtical differemce.

 

[JRuby]

So your hobby farm growing up on 10 acres is a ranchers life?
Good grief.
Don't forget to vote for Killary.

Just being igmorant anout hillary aremt you? Seems loke those losing always pull that stuff
You never did speak of your experoence if you even have amy

We raised over a hundred head at a time.Not large but sure kept me anf my brothers busy.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Well that's just being a neighbor.
Ranchers with 100,000 to 1 million acres, round up pairs for there own operation and for his neighbors.
Ranchers get hat to the neighbor ranches, when it's a long winter and buying 1000 ton of hay is not available.
So you help your neighbor so your pro rancher now?
Let's just agree to disagree. Again.

 

[JRuby]

again what ecperience do you have on thr sibjec

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Just being igmorant anout hillary aremt you? Seems loke those losing always pull that stuff
You never did speak of your experoence if you even have amy

We raised over a hundred head at a time.Not large but sure kept me anf my brothers busy.

Spell check.
I was raised on a 1,000 head dairy.
Both sides of my family were dairymen.
We farmed and provided milk for all mankind.
But according to you, we destroyed the land.

 

[JRuby]

if it was your own property i really dont care what you did. On public land that effects us all.

 

[Jamie6.5]

My Brittany Spaniel, and all other hunting dogs are more important than any low life that has put out poisoned meat...

So because a hunting dog might eat a poisoned hot dog, that warrants shooting another human being?

Wow dude, I think you might have issues.
But that's just me I guess.

 

[Jamie6.5]

i suspect its worse that many think.

And I suspect it's a narrative the ODFW likes because it covers their azzes for their crappy management practices.

 

[JRuby]

And I suspect it's a narrative the ODFW likes because it covers their azzes for their crappy management practices.

I dont disagree.

 

[Jamie6.5]

If caught someone throwing poisoned meat out of their car, I'd shoot the B%&#rds in a heartbeat!

Maybe he did it because wolves killed his Brittany:
WI: Wolves Kill 29 Pets, Hunting Dog Death Toll Rises

 

[Koda]

it doesn't matter if you have a small house or a big ranch, 1 cow or 100,000 cows we are all destroying the land equally. Until some new technology is developed it takes more energy to live than anyone can give back to the Earth. This isn't just a ranching issue, or a wolf issue... just look at what it takes to keep you alive thru winter, don't believe me then try to make it thru one winter without electricity (for most of us...). Everyone has to eat, drink, stay dry and keep warm (or cool). Ranchers aren't destroying the land any more than farmers do and ranchers aren't responsible for the wolfs demise any more than the farmer is responsible for destroying habitat or the dams responsible for the salmon decline. We need to eat, stay warm and dry. If we look at is that way the wolfs demise is just a blip compared to our needs today and even more so for our future. I don't think anyone here wants to see any species go extinct because we need to survive.

The question is where do we draw the line when our resources and wildlife reach theirs, for our own survival? Is there a way we can go the extra mile and protect our wildlife from our own expansion while meeting our needs?

The only thing about the wolf debate that bothers me is a blind us first attitude without any consideration for their survival or extinction. The best answer I've had on this is from Jamie6.5, the wolf is no where near extinction in Canada and much of the land there is not suitable for ranching anyway's and they still have plenty of territory there to meet their needs to roam widely, (this is probably why they haven't naturally migrated back to their historical range in the lower US... but I'm no scientist...). Its a hard pill to swallow as a nature lover but it may just be reality. Science has recently shown that removing the wolf from the land actually harms the environment, their presence preserves a balance in the ecosystem... maybe the small amount of wolves we have now (Or. & Wa.) or something close are all we can do to keep them indigenous to this region like they should be and restore any balance, we should all support that but that means from time to time there will be culling to do.

 

[Koda]

i suspect its worse that many think.

It is. I've read about it. What I should have said in my earlier reply is that if we could eliminate poaching all together we probably wouldn't worry about wolf predation on deer and elk at all. Poachers do take way more game than legal hunters do.