Wolf 6.5 Grendel

[Will_White]

The only niche I can see the 6.5g filling is getting a little more distance out of a 15, and you'd want premium ammo for that. If you are looking for more punch and cheap ammo, a x39 would be a better option IMO.

x39 doesn't work very well with a standard lower, and 6.5 has more punch. It also has better factory hunting ammo.

 

[DizzyJ]

I'm under no illusion that it will be sub-MOA ammo, I'm wanting 6.5 for its increased muzzle energy rather then it's precision. The Wolf would be for plinking and other shooting where higher volume with less precision is needed. I'll still get some better ammo for precision.

The bi-metal jackets and possibly crappy powder will also wear your rifling down faster so if you're thinking about using it in your precision rig, like Bob, you might be shooting yourself in the foot.

Nobody likes shooting themselves in the foot.

Don't be a Bob.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Personally, I'm not worried about increased barrel wear, as the savings from using Wolf quickly pays for a new barrel.

Besides, I think the Lucky Gunner test that most people use to support the extra wear theory is flawed. Yes, the barrel shooting bi-metal jacketed bullets did wear out faster, but that was at extreme temperatures.

I'd be curious to see someone do a similar test of longevity, but do so at a more normal and reasonable firing rate.

 

[titsonritz]

I'll not run steel cased lacquered ammo thru any of my AR's, that crap is for AK's.

 

[DizzyJ]

Personally, I'm not worried about increased barrel wear, as the savings from using Wolf quickly pays for a new barrel.

Besides, I think the Lucky Gunner test that most people use to support the extra wear theory is flawed. Yes, the barrel shooting bi-metal jacketed bullets did wear out faster, but that was at extreme temperatures.

I'd be curious to see someone do a similar test of longevity, but do so at a more normal and reasonable firing rate.

But the only difference in the test was the ammo no?

Your rifle, your choice.

Just giving you my opinion.

And for the record, I've shot literally thousands of steel cased ammo.

I just see no purpose to use it in a precision rig. Blasting rifle? Sure. But not in something I want for long range work.

 

[osprey]

I have shot a bunch of the wolf military classic hp in two different 7.62x39 uppers I built. They both shoot it right around 1 moa. I am sure with the right barrel the wolf grendel ammo should do the same. Got to love the cheap trigger time. As far as accelerated wear goes, the money I save in ammo cost can more than pay for a spare barrel.

 

[DizzyJ]

I have shot a bunch of the wolf military classic hp in two different 7.62x39 uppers I built. They both shoot it right around 1 moa. I am sure with the right barrel the wolf grendel ammo should do the same. Got to love the cheap trigger time. As far as accelerated wear goes, the money I save in ammo cost can more than pay for a spare barrel.

Yes, it will pay for itself as far as barrel replacement is concerned. I'll just never use it in any of my precision rigs.

 

[osprey]

Yes, it will pay for itself as far as barrel replacement is concerned. I'll just never use it in any of my precision rigs.

Yes, a 7.62x39 is far from a lr precision round but I am very happy with the accuracy of my rigs with the cheap ammo. A case of ammo is $200 shipped to my door and a new barrel will cost me $80. I believe the wolf military classic is polymer coated not laquer coated. I have never seen a build up from the coating in any of my rifles shooting this ammo.

 

[titsonritz]

Another thing to remember is 7.62x39 has an extreme taper compared to 5.56x45/.223 this taper helps massively when it comes to extraction that makes a difference hen you consider a hot chamber can melt lacquer and "glue" rounds into the chamber making rounds difficult to extract.

 

[titsonritz]

Yes, a 7.62x39 is far from a lr precision round but I am very happy with the accuracy of my rigs with the cheap ammo. A case of ammo is $200 shipped to my door and a new barrel will cost me $80. I believe the wolf military classic is polymer coated not laquer coated. I have never seen a build up from the coating in any of my rifles shooting this ammo.

The linked ammo is lacquer coated.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

But the only difference in the test was the ammo no?

Your rifle, your choice.

Just giving you my opinion.

And for the record, I've shot literally thousands of steel cased ammo.

I just see no purpose to use it in a precision rig. Blasting rifle? Sure. But not in something I want for long range work.

There's no arguing that a gilding metal jacket is softer than a bi-metal jacket. There's also no disputing that the bi-metal jacket caused considerably more wear to their test barrel.

My question is whether the excessive wear was due to the barrel being hot enough to soften and weaken the steel, allowing the bi-metal jacket to cause more wear.

Would the results be the same in a cold barrel, or one at a more normal temperature?

My belief is that the hardness of barrel steel, especially if nitrided, is greater than that of the bi-metal jacket. It is only when the barrel is overheated and weakened that the excessive wear occurs.

I prefer to shoot brass cased ammo, but only if I'm able to retreive it. If I'm just shooting in the woods, or in a big group where it's hard to police my brass, I prefer using steel cased ammo.

I just really hate losing brass!

 

[osprey]

The linked ammo is lacquer coated.

That is what the description says with the linked ammo but Target sports usa lists it as polymer coated like the 7.62x39. I believe all wolf military classic ammo is polymer coated rather than laquer.
Wolf MC 6.5 Grendel Ammo 100 Grain FMJ Steel Case

This Wolf 6.5 Grendel ammunition features a polymer coating to ensure smooth feeding and extraction

 

[DizzyJ]

Another thing to remember is 7.62x39 has an extreme taper compared to 5.56x45/.223 this taper helps massively when it comes to extraction that makes a difference hen you consider a hot chamber can melt lacquer and "glue" rounds into the chamber making rounds difficult to extract.

I seem to remember someone busting the myth of the laquer melting in the barrel. They took a torch and heated it up briefly and the laquer did not melt. The sticking chamber thing (I believe) is due to the massive amounts of blow by that build up.

Wish I had that video handy. Maybe it was the military arms channel. Not sure.

 

[DizzyJ]

There's no arguing that a gilding metal jacket is softer than a bi-metal jacket. There's also no disputing that the bi-metal jacket caused considerably more wear to their test barrel.

My question is whether the excessive wear was due to the barrel being hot enough to soften and weaken the steel, allowing the bi-metal jacket to cause more wear.

Would the results be the same in a cold barrel, or one at a more normal temperature?

My belief is that the hardness of barrel steel, especially if nitrided, is greater than that of the bi-metal jacket. It is only when the barrel is overheated and weakened that the excessive wear occurs.

I prefer to shoot brass cased ammo, but only if I'm able to retreive it. If I'm just shooting in the woods, or in a big group where it's hard to police my brass, I prefer using steel cased ammo.

I just really hate losing brass!

I too hate loosing brass unless it's during a 3-gun or pistol match, then I usually never worry about it.

I doubt the gun barrels got hot enough to "soften". That would require some serious magazine after magazine of full auto and I doubt they would be able to hold onto them, even with gloves.

There's also no doubt melonite treating makes the surface of the barrel very hard and wear resistant. More so than chrome if I recall correctly. In fact it was my S&W M&P 15T that I ran a test with using well over 1,000 consecutive rounds of wolf, Tula and a couple other brands of steel cases ammo in.

I believe it will still to this day shoot MOA or sub MOA with the right ammo. Is has the melonite treatment.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

I doubt the gun barrels got hot enough to "soften". That would require some serious magazine after magazine of full auto and I doubt they would be able to hold onto them, even with gloves.

The problem is, that's basically what the Lucky Gunner test did. They ran multiple rapid fire mag dumps (not FA) through the rifles, up to 300 rounds at a time. They claim they kept the barrels from going over 750 degrees, but also said the rifles were sometimes fired until they were too hot to touch.

Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo - An Epic Torture Test

Their findings definitely show increased wear with steel cased and bi-metal jacketed bullets, but I still wonder how much of that wear could be attributed to excessive heat.

I'd love to see this test repeated, but at a more moderate and leisurely pace.

 

[DizzyJ]

The problem is, that's basically what the Lucky Gunner test did. They ran multiple rapid fire mag dumps (not FA) through the rifles, up to 300 rounds at a time. They claim they kept the barrels from going over 750 degrees, but also said the rifles were sometimes fired until they were too hot to touch.

Brass vs. Steel Cased Ammo - An Epic Torture Test

Their findings definitely show increased wear with steel cased and bi-metal jacketed bullets, but I still wonder how much of that wear could be attributed to excessive heat.

I'd love to see this test repeated, but at a more moderate and leisurely pace.

Well, buy the ammo and go test your theory.

 

[ConcernedCitizen]

Well, buy the ammo and go test your theory.

I'm slowly testing that theory, but it will likely take years before I manage to wear out a barrel!