Poll: Winchester Lever Action Development

[sobo]

but it was gone when I went into the store to get it after 'drooling' over it for a couple months!

They say timing is everything...

 

[RVTECH]

They say timing is everything...

This wasn't the first time I have done this - be it guns or anything else!

However one 'episode' of procrastination worked to my benefit - I had been looking over two guns - a SIG 226 and a CZ 75 - and went in to take the SIG but it was gone so I took the CZ - and never regretted it!

 

[Lennie]

Without John Browning, Winchester might no longer exist.

For the record, the 86 is the strongest commercial lever action of all lever action designs. Sam Bennett secured the rights to the 86 design when he purchased the rights to produce the Browning single shot rifle. At that time, Browning had already thought out and started the 86 build process.

In my opinion, Winchester could have been much more generous with what they paid Browning. And Winchester being less than generous destroyed their relationship with John Browning.

 

[The Heretic]

Without John Browning, Winchester might no longer exist.

For the record, the 86 is the strongest commercial lever action of all lever action designs. Sam Bennett secured the rights to the 86 design when he purchased the rights to produce the Browning single shot rifle. At that time, Browning had already thought out and started the 86 build process.

In my opinion, Winchester could have been much more generous with what they paid Browning. And Winchester being less than generous destroyed their relationship with John Browning.

Browning tried to get them to be a better partner, but they didn't see eye to eye so Browning went to FN. Winchester eventually wound up being owned by FN & Browning.

 

[drstrangelove]

I shot my 16" Win 94 saddlering carbine today… muzzle blast and fireball was outrageous. Flash Worse than an AR15, by a lot. Recoil with 170gr bullets and leverevolution powder (only 33gr) was on par with win M-70 375 HH. But, unlike my Remlin, the recoil does not lock up the bolt. Runs like a champ. Except the no-recoil pad part… that sucked.

 

[RVTECH]

I shot my 16" Win 94 saddlering carbine today… muzzle blast and fireball was outrageous. Flash Worse than an AR15, by a lot. Recoil with 170gr bullets and leverevolution powder (only 33gr) was on par with win M-70 375 HH.

You need to 'tone down' your loads - I am assuming .30-30?

 

[drstrangelove]

You need to 'tone down' your loads - I am assuming .30-30?

Yeah, I started at the bottom of the ladder from Hogdon… I think I'm going to pull the others and drop 2-3 grains. Can't be very good for the gun.

 

[RVTECH]

Yeah, I started at the bottom of the ladder from Hogdon… I think I'm going to pull the others and drop 2-3 grains. Can't be very good for the gun.

Shift gears entirely and consider using Unique with 110 - 135 grain bullets.

I currently use 10 grains of unique with 110 FMJ .30 carbine bullets, or 100 grain Speer 'Plinkers' - DEADLY accurrate and very easy on the rifle.

 

[drstrangelove]

Shift gears entirely and consider using Unique with 110 - 135 grain bullets.

I currently use 10 grains of unique with 110 FMJ .30 carbine bullets, or 100 grain Speer 'Plinkers' - DEADLY accurrate and very easy on the rifle.

View attachment 1066328

Funny you mention this… I brought a box of shells I loaded with 110FMJ and the recoil was negligible but the blast still unbearable. I will try the pistol powder approach. Not sure I have unique but I do have H110 that should work fine.

 

[RVTECH]

Not sure I have unique but I do have H110 that should work fine.

H110 might be a bit slow for this approach - kind of like W296. Be careful.

Unique has a very, well, 'Unique' burn rate that makes it very useful for reduced rifle loads for MANY .30 caliber loads.

An 'unbearable' blast is an issue. Virtually nothing with Unique. I can shoot my 26" Winchesters with these loads with no ear protection, outside and in the open.

 

[sobo]

I can shoot my 26" Winchesters with these loads with no ear protection, outside and in the open.

Wow, that's impressive...

 

[RVTECH]

Wow, that's impressive...

Yea in the woods with pine trees around in my normal shooting area. Almost like a .22 LR really. Maybe a bit louder but not much.

 

[drstrangelove]

H110 might be a bit slow for this approach - kind of like W296. Be careful.

Unique has a very, well, 'Unique' burn rate that makes it very useful for reduced rifle loads for MANY .30 caliber loads.

An 'unbearable' blast is an issue. Virtually nothing with Unique. I can shoot my 26" Winchesters with these loads with no ear protection, outside and in the open.

I've got a couple pounds of trail boss. Hogdon lists using a 160gr lead cast bullet with 6.5-9gr TB running 1000-1200fps. Should be no safety issue to run a light bullet just a bit faster.

 

[Mark W.]

You missed the 1885 while it is a single shot its still lever action

 

[titsonritz]

You missed the 1885 while it is a single shot its still lever action

That would be considered a falling block action, this series was lineage of Winchester's lever actions not just those by JMB.

 

[Mark W.]

You open the action with a lever. Nobody said anything about a repeater

 

[titsonritz]

You open the action with a lever. Nobody said anything about a repeater

You open this with a lever too, that doesn't make it a lever action. And the repeater part was implicit in the development the Winchester lever-action.




Now if you can show how the 1885 was relevant in the progressive development of Winchester lever action rifles I'm all ears, otherwise it is out of place here. I think you would be hard pressed to find many knowledgeable gun folk saying the Ruger #1 is a lever action, same thing.

 

[apache c-10]

Got a 73 in 38/40, 92 in 25/20, and a 95 src in .30/40 or .30 U.S. like them all but the 95 gets my top pick!

 

[titsonritz]

Got a 73 in 38/40, 92 in 25/20, and a 95 src in .30/40 or .30 U.S. like them all but the 95 gets my top pick!

The '95 is a unique critter among the older lever guns in that is dispenses with the tubular magazine, a "way before it's time" design really.

 

[orygun]

Got a 73 in 38/40, 92 in 25/20, and a 95 src in .30/40 or .30 U.S. like them all but the 95 gets my top pick!

About 20 years ago I passed on a '95 in 30-03. At the time I was concerned about ammo. Boy, was I dumb and do I regret that decision?
(no need to answer. I did that myself)