Who loads.45 colt?.....Dirty?

[Mikej]

I started out with a midrange load of Unique under 200 gr poly coated. Also did some old 250 grain moly coated that I had pulled from someone's reloads. We shot those through a new stainless Rossi M92 w/20" barrel. Dang they were dirty little Fockers. Left the brass and action really dirty. Unique was one of the powders I used when I started loading back in 2011. I didn't use it for long because it seemed dirty compared to cleaner powders like W231/HP38 and HS-6.
So I put the Unique back in the closet and loaded 50 200gr poly coated W/25 each 6.7 and 7.2 grains of W231. AND, just to finish up the thirty of those nasty moly coated 250 grainers I put 10gr of HS-6 under those. Even with the other faster powders I still get some pretty dirty brass (dirtier than I think it should be anyway) and the inside of the receiver is filthy. I'm wondering if the chamber is oversized/sloppy? I'm using a good firm crimp into the canellure. I'm just beginning to wonder if .45 Long Colt is just a dirty round?
Don't really care that much about the brass, but like to keep a reasonably clean chamber and receiver. Don't want to have to do a deep clean after every 20-50 rounds, y'know?

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[DirectDrive]

Sounds like a low pressure load that isn't sealing the case against the chamber wall and thereby letting gasses infiltrate back between the case and cylinder wall.

 

[kmk1012]

Unique is dirty until you get into higher pressures. It really cleans up towards the upper end of load data. That's been my experience with it as well. Haven't used it in well over 10 years because of how much extra work it can create. Although, it helped me get through some tough financial times. I got free lead at work, Lee Liquid Alox is cheap, and primers were the most expensive component. I remember loading a thousand 45's or 357's for less than $40.

 

[therealhitman]

I concur with Direct Drive completely. I had the same issue with my Marlin when I first got it. It's got a relatively loose chamber and lower velocity loads just didn't seal against the walls. Under a cast 250 grainer I tightened my crimp and upped my load of WSF, which I find to be a clean burner in general, until the cases stopped coming out covered with soot. I did use my chronograph to verify I wasn't approaching stupid/silly territory. I later worked up a load with 700X that I use now for a little more case fill. Very little as it turns out lol.
I am assuming that there is some magic powder/charge weight the Cowboy Action guys are using that runs clean, I just don't know what it might be.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I recently bought some win 244 to try after reading its got win clean in the powders description. I hope it works as advertised and I see loading data for it on the Hodgkins site.

Reloading Data Center

www.hodgdonreloading.com

 

[DirectDrive]

Unique is dirty until you get into higher pressures. It really cleans up towards the upper end of load data. That's been my experience with it as well. Haven't used it in well over 10 years because of how much extra work it can create. Although, it helped me get through some tough financial times. I got free lead at work, Lee Liquid Alox is cheap, and primers were the most expensive component. I remember loading a thousand 45's or 357's for less than $40.

Yep
Unique is on the Dirty Powder List.
Old school powder introduced in 1900 although the newest version is supposed to burn cleaner.

 

[clanhanson]

Wimpy loads are more dirty in my experience, but it's never been a "clean" shooting round for me.

 

[Mikej]

Well it's better if the chamber is at spec! That's for sure. However an empty fired case drops right in and bottoms out. Probably doesn't really mean anything though.

Unique is dirty until you get into higher pressures. It really cleans up towards the upper end of load data. That's been my experience with it as well. Haven't used it in well over 10 years because of how much extra work it can create. Although, it helped me get through some tough financial times. I got free lead at work, Lee Liquid Alox is cheap, and primers were the most expensive component. I remember loading a thousand 45's or 357's for less than $40.

That's why my bottle of Unique is from 10 years ago!

I concur with Direct Drive completely. I had the same issue with my Marlin when I first got it. It's got a relatively loose chamber and lower velocity loads just didn't seal against the walls. Under a cast 250 grainer I tightened my crimp and upped my load of WSF, which I find to be a clean burner in general, until the cases stopped coming out covered with soot. I did use my chronograph to verify I wasn't approaching stupid/silly territory. I later worked up a load with 700X that I use now for a little more case fill. Very little as it turns out lol.
I am assuming that there is some magic powder/charge weight the Cowboy Action guys are using that runs clean, I just don't know what it might be.

I figured I was just going to need to increase charge. I don't have anything I load at the top for. I'm still a noob really only doing this for 10 years. And this .45 colt is a new cartridge for me. And as mentioned, it's not a "Clean' round to begin with, I'd imagined already. but this seem a little over the top dirty.

I recently bought some win 244 to try after reading its got win clean in the powders description. I hope it works as advertised and I see loading data for it on the Hodgkins site.

Reloading Data Center

www.hodgdonreloading.com

I would hesitate to give another powder a try. But the way things are, and the fact I haven't exhausted more experimentation, I'll give it another shot and boost the powder some.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I am not sure where I read everything but I recall reading with the acceptance of coated bullets that some powders burn the coatings on the base and foul the barrel.

I bought my first box of coated bullets and some Win 244 with win clean. It's a new powder supposedly created to solve burnt bottoms on the bullets.

I have no idea if it works but will try it.

Description

This new Winchester pistol powder has all the latest features for a mid-range, burn
speed, propellant. Winchester 244 BALL Powder? Propellant is a WINCLEAN? product with
a host of attributes, including reduced copper fouling, clean burning and precise metering.
The versatility of this fine powder can be found in 9mm Luger, 45 ACP, 38 Special and many,
many more pistol cartridges. From plinking rounds to top competitive target loads, 244 is a
?Clean? winner!

 

[41mag]

Seems I recall something called "Universal Clays" that was dern clean for low end 45 loads. And then something called "Clear Shot" or "Clean Shot" that actually produced similar smoke to the Holy Black, but the barrel & cylinder were very clean. Of course it didn't last long on the market. IIRC I tried a bit of Tite Group but frankly got spooked from all the 'easy to double/triple dose it' stories. Seemed otherwise good enough.

Then the 'Trail Boss' which is a wonderful load in low end 45 especially 200gr lead.
The WSF/WST was a regular for me but it's been so long since I loaded any I forget which was cleaner & which was stickier/gummier. I've lost track of my old reloading notes so can't tell for sure. The Swiss stuff was nice, clean, accurate, way expensive at the time. I avoided Unique & 700x as it was too erratic thru the powder drop/scale confirm process for me.

Much of the trick is getting the right combo of powder choice, load amount & crimp. Don't miss out on a season or 2 of loading fer the Holy Black, it's a wonderful experience.

 

[po18guy]

Unique has recently been slightly re-formulated to burn cleaner, so a fresh caninster might be in order. One of the oldest, it is still one of the most versatile of powders.

 

[deadeye]

Well it's better if the chamber is at spec! That's for sure. However an empty fired case drops right in and bottoms out. Probably doesn't really mean anything though.

That's why my bottle of Unique is from 10 years ago!

I figured I was just going to need to increase charge. I don't have anything I load at the top for. I'm still a noob really only doing this for 10 years. And this .45 colt is a new cartridge for me. And as mentioned, it's not a "Clean' round to begin with, I'd imagined already. but this seem a little over the top dirty.


I would hesitate to give another powder a try. But the way things are, and the fact I haven't exhausted more experimentation, I'll give it another shot and boost the powder some.

Unique powder you should be around 9gr for 200gr bullets and 231 around 7.5gr. Unique is dirty if you load bunny farts same will happen with blue dot if loaded light. The case isnt expanding fully and you're getting bypass back into the chamber. The 250's with HS6 should be more like 11-11.5gr not going to clean up unless you get the case to expand. Maybe just load a batch to mid or mid high and see if the case expands using a caliper to check, along with how dirty it gets vs others. If you want to run reduced loads you're going to end up cleaning more often, just gonna have to teach the ol lady how to clean your gun.........uh I mean rifle.

 

[No_Regerts]

If you ever get a 45 LC revolver, especially something based on a design thats 125 years old, keep your rifle loads and handgun loads separate. Maybe even mark the rifle loads with permanent marker or something.

 

[deadeye]

If you ever get a 45 LC revolver, especially something based on a design thats 125 years old, keep your rifle loads and handgun loads separate. Maybe even mark the rifle loads with permanent marker or something.

I had to do this with lever loads vs Ruger only loads when I was shooting them. The older Ruger Blackhawks and vaquero's I had could handle a much hotter load than the Winchester's could. Had some pretty hot 300gr loads for the pistols.

 

[Xaevian]

If you want to continue to use powder coated bullets and have 2 loads for pistol and rifle, see if you can get a different color for the pistol rounds. That would be pretty easy to tell the difference.

 

[DizzyJ]

Sounds like a low pressure load that isn't sealing the case against the chamber wall and thereby letting gasses infiltrate back between the case and cylinder wall.

My thought as well

 

[TDH]

Mine are dirty too - I use 700x, I just have learned to live with it. It's an accurate load, and I'm going to clean it anyway.

 

[saxon]

tightgroup, H110 i would have to get out my book for others

and after reading about molly coated bullets and what the end result can happen more often then not
i do not shoot them in any gun

 

[oremike]

You might try a faster powder like Bullseye or one made to work well at low pressure like AA 5744. AA-#2 is a pretty clean powder as well. Bottom line is it's all a compromise. You are loading a large but low pressure case so is what you want a fast powder that generates it's energy basically before the bullet leaves the case or a much more full case of powder that burns the length of the barrel? I don't know. For me, a little bit of dirt and soot is combustion by-products and as long as it's not gumming up the works I don't worry about it. A general observation I've made is that most powders burn cleaner with a pressure over 20,000 psi. The 45 Colt standard load pressure Max is 14,000 PSI.

Edited to add: if I remember right you are shooting a stainless rifle and so the smootz will be seen easier on that metal over a blued one.

 

[coop44]

I switched from unique to bullseye for 45 colt. Unique does not meter as accurately as bullseye for me. I just have to be very careful not to double charge. Bullseye burns fairly clean.