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WHO CAN BE TRUSTED WITH GUNS?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by dario541, Jan 31, 2011.

  1. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    The government today is saying that civilians CANNOT be trusted with guns. 80,000,000 current gun owners are unworthy to possess firearms. As a group, they seem to consider every one of us as callous killers. They want to totally disarm us. Then, like Nazi Germany (which did the same thing) we will have a Paradise right here on earth!
    While they claim that WE cannot be trusted, they tell us that we CAN TRUST THEM with guns! Well, I don't know! The way that they constantly trash the Constitution makes them criminals, too, in my opinion. After all, ANYBODY - IN OR OUT OF THE GOVERNMENT - who breaks ANY LEGAL LAW (and the Constitution is LEGAL LAW) is also engaging in CRIMINAL ACTIVITY!
    So, someone tell me - WHY SHOULD I TRUST THEM? In what way are Government people better than YOU AND I???
     
  2. Got an article or story that you can link to which provoked this thread? I'd love to see where "the government" said that.
     
  3. JohnWayne

    JohnWayne USA Member

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    +1... someone just snap today?
     
  4. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    since when does the "government" say anything with a single voice?
     
  5. zeezee

    zeezee nowheresville Member

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    Marko Kloos
    Staff

    Join Date: January 12, 2000
    Location: Enfield, NH
    Posts: 5,517

    A Declaration of Civil Disobedience

    I will not register my guns. If such a law is ever enacted on the federal, State or municipal level, I will choose to ignore it. I was required to leave my personal data with the gun dealer when I purchased each of my guns legally, and this data is doubtlessly on record already. Let law enforcement look it up if they choose, but I will not register my guns: not now, and not in the future. Registration of handguns, or any other firearm, will not prevent a single crime from happening. It only serves to harass the law-abiding citizen for the sole offense of owning a politically incorrect item.

    I will not surrender my guns voluntarily, ever. If the possession of handguns is declared illegal by any legislative body, I will choose to ignore it. If the owners of newly or soon-to-be illegal weapons are asked to turn them in for compensation, I will not comply. Let them try to enforce a law that is not enforceable, and declare a war on guns that will be no more successful than the war on drugs that has eroded most of our civil liberties in the last two decades. If they go from door to door to ask for guns, I will deny ownership; if they break down doors to search for guns, I will do my best to make their mission difficult. Confiscation of firearms will do nothing to make society safer. It merely takes away an essential basic right from the peasantry: the right to self defense. Without the means to it, the right itself is nonexistent except on paper.

    I will never again concern myself with concealed carry laws. I will carry my sidearm as I see fit, and wherever I choose, whether I am in Wyoming or New York City. I will ignore unjust laws denying me the right to determine my own fate while exempting friends and cronies of the legislature and the executive from the same laws. I will try to comply with the law whenever possible and obtain a permit whenever given the opportunity; I do not wish to be a lawbreaker if I can avoid it. But I will no longer comply with the demands of legislators who want to leave us defenseless against those who will always prey on others with the help of guns no matter what the law says.

    I know that I am not alone. I am part of a growing group of citizens that are fed up with being painted as radical, violent, ignorant and bigoted. Most of us are not camouflage-wearing conspiracy theorists. We are doctors, lawyers, soldiers, carpenters, nurses, computer programmers and convenience store clerks. We are fathers, mothers, grandparents, brothers, sisters and colleagues. We are "the American people" so often quoted and invoked by politicians. We come from all walks of life, all levels of income and education, all faiths and non-faiths. We share a common anger at those who want to take our self-determination away from us, those who blame us for every senseless and over-publicized act of gun violence in this country, those who are more than willing to trade an essential liberty for the illusion of safety. We are tired of politicians who create law after law to fight actions by people who by definition do not obey laws, in order to pacify a vocal and ignorant portion of the population. We also share the belief that the responsibility for our safety is up to us, and can never be completely entrusted to an understaffed, underpaid and overworked police force that is mostly tied up in an unwinnable battle against drugs.

    We do not ask for special rights, we merely ask that our right to self-defense and self-determination is respected and not undermined. We wish to be left alone, and we do not want to surrender our integrity and our means to enforce our right to life and liberty for a social experiment that has already been a massive failure in those countries who attempted it. We are citizens, not peons. We are free men and women, not serfs who exist to provide taxes to the ruling caste.

    We have tried to play by rules that have turned more pointless and nonsensical by the year. We have paid the fees, filled out the forms and subjected ourselves to the background checks. We have been fingerprinted like common criminals. We have tolerated the insults and the scapegoating of some of our fellow citizens, and that of the mass media. We have, where we could, taken all the steps necessary to go armed and obey the laws at the same time. Here we draw a line in the sand. Stop harassing us, for we are not the problem. Taking our rights away from us will not solve your problems, or make us all any safer against crime. We have done what we can to work with you when you came after us year after year. We gave up our military-style sporter rifles, and society did not turn any safer. We were forced to purchase guns with crippled magazines that limited their functionality, and yet society did not turn any safer for it. Yet you come back with sure regularity, asking for more of what is ours, in return for the promise of a safer society. You pass laws because it is the only thing you can do in the face of outraged soccer moms demanding that something be done to "stop the violence'. You cater to ignorance, and you willingly chip away at the rights of a group that is perceived to have little public support--minimizing the risk of election day backlash. Everything you have done has failed to improve society, yet you return and ask for one more restriction, one more "common sense" gun law, arguing that the last round of restrictions was just not severe enough.

    We are tired of it. We know that if you made all guns illegal, it would have no effect on crime and violence, but we also know that you would not turn around and return us our rights and our guns after you are proven wrong by reality.

    As an individual, I will choose to disobey whenever you enact a law inconsistent with my basic right to self-defense. Try to force us into registering our guns, or giving them up altogether, just so you can garner support for your next election, and you face the responsibility for whatever happens next. Many of us will refuse to obey, and then you will have a choice between trying to enforce this law or silently ignoring those who choose to disobey it. A law that is not obeyed, and cannot be enforced, does more harm to you than it does to those you try to govern. As Albert Einstein said after the repeal of the Prohibition laws, nothing will cause more disrespect of government than the enactment of laws that cannot be enforced. And make no mistake, a general gun registration or outright ban can only be enforced by sending the police from door to door, forcefully entering those homes which refuse to cooperate. How many dead citizens are you willing to tolerate before you repent? How many police officers are you willing to sacrifice? More importantly, how much of this is the general population willing to take? The war on drugs has brought about the demise of most civil rights, a war on guns would bring society to its knees. You've declared drugs illegal, yet they are available on most every street corner in this country. What good will a ban on guns do?

    Law is law, but a bad law is just that. It was the law in Germany to refuse Jews access to public air raid shelters during World War Two, and many people chose to ignore that law. I am glad they did. I value my conscience and my integrity over your seat in Congress. Therefore I declare that I will no longer obey laws that are an affront to my humanity, laws that are nothing but elitist arrogant attempts to keep arms out of the hands of the unwashed masses. Pick another group for your social experiments, like the criminals for example.

    We have no intention to commit crimes of violence with our guns, and we are deeply offended by the notion that you alone can make the decision who can be trusted with a gun, and that we serfs just cannot act in a responsible fashion when given access to guns.

    No registration, no confiscation. Ever. If I should ever break your laws and get caught, you can arrest me. I'd rather live in jail with the knowledge that my spirit is free, than on the outside as a tax-paying serf knowing that I only serve as a worker bee with no rights and little personal freedom. I know that I am not alone, and let's see just how many jails you can build to accomodate all those who have had enough of your failed and unjust policies.
    By Marko Kloos @ A Declaration of Civil Disobedience - TheFiringLine Forums
    Good write, well worth the 2 minutes it takes to read.
     
  6. sheepdip

    sheepdip Redland Well-Known Member

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    good luck with that
     
  7. MrNiceGuy

    MrNiceGuy between springfield and shelbyville Well-Known Member

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    :werd:
     
  8. dario541

    dario541 medford, or 97504 Member

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    Thank you, Zee Zee! I hope that there are at least a few million who feel that way. We may soon have the choice to resist or crawl. I don't like to crawl.
     
  9. deadeye

    deadeye Albany,OR. Moderator Staff Member

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    And had it not been for our forefathers doing just that we wouldnt have the right to speak our mind like this guy has for us all.
     
  10. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    :paranoid::paranoid::paranoid: Who's asking???

    Sadly it seems like the people who actually take steps towards gathering a group, "militia", together to increase awareness, study and train in tactics, or just use the 2nd amendment to ensure their rights are kept are white supremist groups, extreme anti-govt, or just crazy conspiracy theorists.
    They screw everything up for us gun, freedom, constitution loving people.

    It would be nice especially in this day in age to start engaging people towards a "militia" as our rights indicate to ensure pressure against an injust govt so we can ensure retention of our rights, Not just gun rights, but every right given to us as free men.

    But if we do that even peacefully we are looking at as terrorist, and will be on every FED watch list in the country.

    I think in some way or another we need to start joining together to know who are friends are and who can be trusted to fight for our rights on any front, but not to threaten, antagonize, or speak of hate.
    I'm sorry, but some of the people on this forum seem to want to just fight the govt, fight the police, fight any people in power. That's not right. We need to preach peace and at a last resort grab arms and fight for out God given rights, and what this country was founded on.

    I hate hearing people just talk about fighting the govt, wanting to preach hate. That's just a reach for greed and power. Not different that white supremist, KKK, muslim extremist, dictators, etc.
     
  11. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Another thing that bothers me is the past that when the great depression hit people who were criminals fought against banks, robbing them and were inturn made heroes in cities because they fought back against the govt and banks that robbed the people of it's money.
    If this type on thing were to happen again to that extent. I can't understand why people would fight amongst themselves to rob, kill, or steal when they should go after the people that put them in that situation. And most likely got rich off from it. I think there should be a public list of all the heads of corporations, banks, wall street, state and fed heads including all addresses, and annual earnings.
    Because I'm sure there's a lot of people like the bernie madoffs that got filthy rich while this country went broke. They people are criminals and should stand for their violations agaisnt the people of this country. But for every madoff, there are hundreds if not thousands more that get away and do it all over again. And it's no different in the govt.
     
  12. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    Oh I meant to get to my original point we should get groups like this together one a quarter or so and discuss new gun laws, proposed gun laws, misc chat, who has what skills, etc. So we know each other who we can trust in the community, etc.
    I know some of you do this anyway. But have it more like a convention style. Or even get together at a gun show or something.
    Maybe someone has an abundance of ammo, food, or land we can gather in a govt fail situation. The only way we will get through a govt collaspe type situation is to stick together and use each other's skills to start over, or just survive.
    And it helps to talk about certain stuff in person and not on an online forum everyone can read. :paranoid:
     
  13. HollisOR

    HollisOR Rural OR, South of Dallas Active Member

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    A question was posed, "Who is the government?" I happen to know a number of our local LEOs. They are good people, I doubt they would come and grab out guns, so who will? I am sure a **** not going to harm a friend over this issue.
     
  14. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I have friends and family that are LEOs and I think any LEOs would do their jobs. Period. If the laws says they come get your guns they do it. I think a lot of them would question it, some would even quit over it. Then again you would have years of legal battles as to the constitutional rights being violated. Just like Chicago. It's illegal to own a handgun, but a lot of people do. It's just enforced if they catch you with it. As in you shoot a bad guy for commiting a crime against you.
    It happened not too long ago, with hte Vet shooting a burgular breaking into his home.
    I highly doubt you will see any govt official coming to your home. Not in our lifetime. If so their will be a lot of people shot.