White farmers in South Africa

[sabasarge]

Another Zimbabwe in the making, for sure.

This ^
I was working in Zimbabwe when Mugabe was taking the land from the white farmers who had for decades made that country/Rhodesia the breadbasket of southern Africa. It wasn't pretty.....friends of mine and their families beaten up, aquaintences killed, etc.
From the breadbasket to basket case in record time.
As for the Zulus, I was in the Delta in Botswana '93-'94 during the elections and it was almost a given that there was going to be a Zulu bloodbath. Happily things turned out differently, but S.A. is a mess, and I don't see things changing anytime soon, which is tragic considering how incredibly beautiful that country is, with some truly amazing people. As an aside, and while it's been awhile, Cape Town used to have some of the most beautiful women in the world back in the day!

 

[MannyGlocks]

My brief story about S.A. doctors.

My wife and I were in New Zealand about 10 years ago visiting an MD (family practice) buddy and his family.

We attended a party that consisted mainly of S.A. doctors who'd gotten out due to the violence.

S.A. is just another marxist failure - high quality folk bail when communism prevails.

Why stay?

I sure as hell wouldn't...

 

[justcuz]

Alas, those Afrikaners who stayed in the ZA farms did so because FW & Nelson assured them their farm's ownership was safe and it has been these past 15+/- years. Oh and you do mean these Afrikaners who's ancestors captured/stole the land from the indigenous tribes in the first place?

Political motives change over time as does economics but doesn't anybody find it a bit odd anybody in this country actually cares about ZA government's land reform activities?

Quote: British Prime Minister Theresa May said the world could not ignore the need for land reform in South Africa, adding that she had full confidence in President Cyril Ramaphosa to deliver on that …unquote

British Prime Minister trusts Ramaphosa with land reform - SA Breaking News

Surely you are referring to the Republic of Zimbabwe since the territory of Southern Rhodesia doesn't exist any more! The same territory taken from the tribes of indigenous population by white Cecil Rhodes, in 1898, who egotistically named the territory after himself? The new governmental leadership of Zimbabwae is in the process of selling/giving back the farm lands to boost AG production to feed the country's populace.

Ps ZA AF December 18 graduating article with photo... The South African Air Force

 

[sabasarge]

So I guess you're in favor of returning most of America to the indigenous tribes who were here first? No problem...you first.
Just curious....have you ever been in southern Africa?

 

[justcuz]

No, I read about them and I resent your audicity to even begin the improper implication(s) of doubting my veracity as it makes you look extremely insecure that maybe, just maybe, someone's adventures could possibly surpass yours even in your pretty green uniform.

Sabasarge, et al., please never forget there are individuals, many folk, who may walk this earth going to more places as well as doing way more important things that you can only dream about, and their travels are such your clearance isn't high enough to begin to know about!

Finally, should you be discussing your location let alone your activities on the African Continent with a foto of you and a buddy in your 'purdy' green uniforms?

PS, the sexist comment regarding the ZA females of Cape Town is insulting at best!

 

[sabasarge]

I will only respond by saying that I am very aware that there are many, many people out there who have done much more, experienced much more, accomplished much more, and been many more places on this earth than I.

 

[wired]

PS, the sexist comment regarding the ZA females of Cape Town is insulting at best!

How on earth was that sexist or insulting?

 

[wp4]

No, I read about them and I resent your audicity to even begin the improper implication(s) of doubting my veracity as it makes you look extremely insecure that maybe, just maybe, someone's adventures could possibly surpass yours even in your pretty green uniform.

Sabasarge, et al., please never forget there are individuals, many folk, who may walk this earth going to more places as well as doing way more important things that you can only dream about, and their travels are such your clearance isn't high enough to begin to know about!

Finally, should you be discussing your location let alone your activities on the African Continent with a foto of you and a buddy in your 'purdy' green uniforms?

PS, the sexist comment regarding the ZA females of Cape Town is insulting at best!

I like how he asks you a question and all you want to do is tell him there are many more people who do many more things in many more ways etc etc etc and insult him based off of his avatar pic. Wow, way to make a cogent argument.

Ya, soo sexist to say there are beautiful women in a certain geographic location.

Please don't crap all over this thread, I am interested in the topic and would hate to see another good thread go down the tubes.

Nobody answered my previous question yet BTW.

 

[Kruel J]

No, I read about them and I resent your audicity to even begin the improper implication(s) of doubting my veracity as it makes you look extremely insecure that maybe, just maybe, someone's adventures could possibly surpass yours even in your pretty green uniform.

Sabasarge, et al., please never forget there are individuals, many folk, who may walk this earth going to more places as well as doing way more important things that you can only dream about, and their travels are such your clearance isn't high enough to begin to know about!

Finally, should you be discussing your location let alone your activities on the African Continent with a foto of you and a buddy in your 'purdy' green uniforms?

PS, the sexist comment regarding the ZA females of Cape Town is insulting at best!

I read the comment, and stating women are beautiful is neither sexist nor an insult.

Tone it down. The only insults I read in this thread are coming from YOU @justcuz

 

[P7M13]

Someone forgot to take their Lithium today, and I exercised my first ignore feature.

Just curious....have you ever been in southern Africa?

No, I read about them and I resent your audicity to even begin the improper implication(s) of doubting my veracity as it makes you look extremely insecure that maybe, just maybe, someone's adventures could possibly surpass yours even in your pretty green uniform.

Look into the mirror when you say that, then go read up on the phenomenon called projection.

PS, the sexist comment regarding the ZA females of Cape Town is insulting at best!

Forget the Lithium. Take some Xanax.

[edit to add] Wow, the ignore feature is great - like removing stains from a white shirt.

 

[justcuz]

Honest question -
Would they even need air support?
Or is the possibility there that the white A/F would come in strafing the black infantry units as they go to drive out the white farmers?

WP4, The ZA miliary is, on the whole, well disciplined and President Ramaphosa is at the moment well respected so it is doubtful any military insurrection against the government or the civilian population in the next couple years will transpire to any extent. Squabbles ya, major civil uprisings probably not.

Please remember, what is going on in ZA is also transpiring in your very own country with the push to remove Confederate symbols, metoo initiatives, etc., from this country's heritage & landscape.

ZA is trying to figure out a political methodology to legitimize the taking of land(s) 'colonized' [read taken from the indigenous peoples during and after the establishment of the penal colony] so there is equality across the county's populace.

It complicates things when the ZA's main coloured populace, with minor exceptions, was denied by past governmental statutory mandates any type of education beyond our equivalent of ninth grade. So as in our country, you have great economic diversity of impoverished and uneducated coloured citizens and quite a few extremely wealth and educated abroad coloured aristocratics pushing this politically hot potato land reform agenda, very similar to the $$$$ funding anti firearm initiative(s) against those citizens who advocate for 2A.

 

[sabasarge]

Justcuz, you are correct when you talk of the limited educational resources offered to blacks in those years, and the impact that had on going forward with black rule. One of the many reasons that SA is in the mess it's in is because as the ANC mandated management of business's being turned over to blacks, production and efficiency plummeted, in large part because locals were being put in positions of power and decision-making without having been properly trained.....again, because they hadn't been given the oportunity to climb the ladder and "learn the ropes". I saw this up close with regards to one of the wealthiest diamond mines in southern Africa with whom I had a relationship for a couple of years. It was a fiasco as embarassingly whites had to be brought back in to right the ship.
Whatever your views on the political situation there, there is IMHO no question but that the continued expropriation of white farms without compensation (at best, physically attacking the farmers and their families at worse) will however have serious deleterious effects on SA's economy in a number of areas, with food production being only one, albeit a big one. Not to be forgotten are the game farms as well, where long-time white proprietors are also being kicked off, which will undoubtedly negatively affect the economy as well in numerous ways.
One need only look to Zimbabwe to see the results of such a short-sighted policy.

 

[DuneHopper]

And I take it these people over there are all unarmed..............hmmmm makes one wonder.....

 

[sabasarge]

"Finally, should you be discussing your location let alone your activities on the African Continent with a foto of you and a buddy in your 'purdy' green uniforms?"

I'm sorry I missed this earlier justcuz. Just so you understand, I'm proud both of my service, and of the work I did in my years in Africa and elsewhere. I'm not hiding from anyone, but I do appreciate your heartfelt concern.

 

[justcuz]

Justcuz, you are correct when you talk of the limited educational resources offered to blacks in those years, and the impact that had on going forward with black rule. One of the many reasons that SA is in the mess it's in is because as the ANC mandated management of business's being turned over to blacks, production and efficiency plummeted, in large part because locals were being put in positions of power and decision-making without having been properly trained.....again, because they hadn't been given the oportunity to climb the ladder and "learn the ropes". I saw this up close with regards to one of the wealthiest diamond mines in southern Africa with whom I had a relationship for a couple of years. It was a fiasco as embarassingly whites had to be brought back in to right the ship.
Whatever your views on the political situation there, there is IMHO no question but that the continued expropriation of white farms without compensation (at best, physically attacking the farmers and their families at worse) will however have serious deleterious effects on SA's economy in a number of areas, with food production being only one, albeit a big one. Not to be forgotten are the game farms as well, where long-time white proprietors are also being kicked off, which will undoubtedly negatively affect the economy as well in numerous ways.
One need only look to Zimbabwe to see the results of such a short-sighted policy.

Now sabasarge, you have portrayed, for this audience, an accurate characterization of what the end of the apartheid era wrought on/to The Republic as well as why the country's government, since Nelson passed, is struggling under their burden of establishment of any form of realistic governance as they lack the complete experience base to do so!

Unfortunately, the violent infighting within the ANC which has been going on for many many years; the political turmoils from the opposition factions; the blatant cronyism under Zuma; as well as the push to 'correct' [real or perceived] atrocities of the pre-colonization period; coupled with the inablity to curb their failing economic issues [employment, etc] have done absolutely nothing to perpetuate a viable and stable government for the country.

Oh to answer you Dunehopper, a working Kalashnikov with 100 rounds, could be purchased, in the right venue, for around the equivalent of 30USD, due to the current economic straits of the country now, it could be more or less. Further, quite a few Afrikaners across the Republic normally OC'd expensive handguns in their daily activities and the farmers normally had protection teams carrying expensive foreign fully automatic long guns.

BTW, sabasarge, remember from the ZA populace's perspective, the governance under Robert Mugabe was quite successful and the adage promoted by Santayana, quote:

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

Unquote.

 

[justcuz]

"Finally, should you be discussing your location let alone your activities on the African Continent with a foto of you and a buddy in your 'purdy' green uniforms?"

I'm sorry I missed this earlier justcuz. Just so you understand, I'm proud both of my service, and of the work I did in my years in Africa and elsewhere. I'm not hiding from anyone, but I do appreciate your heartfelt concern.

As am I sabasarge, as am I, but now you are beginning to have a better understanding aren't you whenever unwarranted & disparaging commentary is voiced about the legitimacy of one's experience(s) as we walk the by-ways of this world's continents going about the business at hand!

Consider and remember there are some who are limited to relate on public forums as 'from what i have read' perspectives!

 

[ma96782]

Aloha, Mark

 

[ma96782]

Aloha, Mark

 

[Stomper]

The Boers should burn their farms to the ground on the way out.

And salt the fields, and throw dead & festered carcasses, and piles and piles of feces into any water wells....

 

[Stomper]

My brief story about S.A. doctors.

My wife and I were in New Zealand about 10 years ago visiting an MD (family practice) buddy and his family.

We attended a party that consisted mainly of S.A. doctors who'd gotten out due to the violence.

S.A. is just another marxist failure - high quality folk bail when communism prevails.

Why stay?

I sure as hell wouldn't...

Where ya gonna go when our country (USA) inevitably goes full socialist?