Whats to know about clone guns of the old west?

[ch139]

HI guys. Looking for some education here. I imagine I have been looking in all the wrong places and asking all the wrong questions.

I seem to have a growing interest in some of the old west pieces (mostly based on TV and movies). At this point I think I would want to "start out" with a rifle/carbine and SAA revolver I'd like to stick to "real calibers" and have them match (can handload) so am thinking 44-40. Later, if all goes well, maybe get into some bigger leverguns (love the Centenial Winchesters) I see that Cimarron has some neat pieces as do some other companies like Taylor's etc. I am most interested in quality, really hate buying junk. If one companies gun is a bit more expensive for better quality, I'm OK with that. My mission would be the destruction of tin cans, ventilating paper and maybe a Steel match (73 SRC in PCCI class in Speed Steel)

What the heck is the difference between all of these different companies offering?

I seem to have come to believe that Uberti manufacturers many of these guns. Companies like Cimarron get their "pick of the litter" from places like Uberti. Is Cimarron "the best?" What would you recommend and why?

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[Stomper]

@Andy54Hawken Or @Ura-Ki may be able to shed some light on this.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I like the Uberti Copies of the Colt SAA and Winchester Rifles / Carbines.
They do a great job of capturing the look and feel of a original.
Plus in my experience the Uberti guns are just a bit more finely finished.

.44-40 is excellent historic cartridge.
.45 Colt is great too...but was never offered ( historically ) in a Winchester rifle or carbine.
If Historically correctness ain't needed...a Uberti in .357 along with a Winchester copy in the same is tough to beat.
Andy

 

[Ura-Ki]

Plenty of options out there, so you are going to have to decide ( Or not) where you want to start! The traditional black power "Cap n Ball" is a great way to enjoy the historical aspect, and that naturally leads one to the black powder cartridge based firearms that came a little later on, and finally, the modern smokeless firearms that followed! So, where to start! Uberti, Pietta, Cimmeron, Rossi, Henry, Marlin, Lyman, Winchester Colt, Stevens, Remington, Savage, Shilo, and many more, all will have something to trip your trigger! A good place to start is a Cap n Ball revolver, the ever popular Remington pattern 1858 .44 cal is a great piece and a lot of fun for not a big investment, and you can get the .45 Colt cartridge conversion cylinders for them easy! From there, naturally a lever action, but now you into the self contained cartridge firearms!
Conversly, a Haws Colt replica Peacemaker .45 Colt, and a Winchester or Henry Lever also in .45 colt would make an outstanding pair, and don't forget the Shilo Sharps .45/70-90-100+ replica for that complete frontiersmens battery! The real beauty of .45 caliber is you can get a few molds and share across the bore(ed)

 

[03A3Sporter]

The Uberti single actions I own are 1:1 colt SAA copies right down to parts interchangeability. They also have their inherent design limitations . Great revolvers for the price though mine came with a 45ACP and a 45 Long Colt cylinder which I like .

 

[ch139]

Thanks guys for all the info, I really appreciate it!

Family has some original Winchesters (73s, 92s, 94s 95) most seem like museum pieces. I know they make for good investments, but I would be hesitant to take them out and shoot them much. They seem like "oooh" and "aaah" pieces "Here, shoot this 137-year old Winchester" type of thing, neat to shoot a piece of history. This is not the gun I'd take to a Speed Steel match.

Family also has a few Browning B92s in 357 mag. and 44 mag. Also neat pieces, but really not where I want to go as far as caliber is concerned. I kinda grew up around the 38-40 so am looking for something "different." I seem to recall thinking "thats it" when reading about the new Henry 1860s being made in 44-40 (I'd like to have one of those to.)

I'd also love to get into cap-and-ball at some point. Having a Mattie Ross Walker would be a hoot! For me though, one step at a time, I think I'd like to start with a 1873 rifle.

During my down time I find myself making lists in my head of what I "need" and this list seems to grow a little bit all the time.

I have guns in 45 Colt so getting a SAA (or two) makes sense (but no 73 Winchester copies, they were never made in 45 Colt). 44-40 is kind where my mind drifts off to; a 73 or two, maybe SRC and a 24-inch rifle. SAA (or two). The need for a Tom Horn 76 seems real (family has some history there) IIRC he had a 94 in 30-30 and only a cartridge or two in 45-60 for a 76. Nevertheless, Steve McQueen's Tom Horn had a 76 which my mind tells me "If Steve McQueen had one I should have one too!" If a fella is going to have one 45-60 you might as well have two; Tom Selleck's 76 from Crossfire Trail seems essential. If we're following Tom Selleck that would naturally require a Quigly Sharps. If a guy is going to have one Sharps then more seem prudent! Not sure of the configuration or caliber, but a Sharps like Bob Valdez's would seem natural. Maybe Doc's Sharps from Young Guns and/or a LaBeouf Sharps carbine. If you're going to go way down the Sharps rabbit hole a Billy Dixon rifle in 50-90 would be the cherry on top.

For me, this would be years worth of saving and collecting. My capricious desires seem to change with the direction of the wind and I might not feel this way tomorrow. Pretty sure I'm on this path for a while though.

If you took your precious time to read through all of that, I am grateful and grateful for any assistance.

Now that I've made a mess of all of this, maybe go back to the basics...

Best (highest quality) 1873 Winchester replica is?

 

[ch139]

Also, what IS the deal with Cimarron?

Is it true they get the pick-of-the-litter from Uberti and are therefore nicer/better?

 

[Ura-Ki]

If it means anything, I rock a pair of Winny 95 levers, one in .30/06 and the other in .405 Win, and they both get lots of use, both in the field and the range, and the .38X55 used to see a lot of SASS Wild Bunch type matches, it's an absolute hoot! Non are newer then 1927, but to use them is to honor them and those who crafted them, and to me, there is no finer tribute to that then to use them!

I also collect civil war era Colt Side Hammer Revolving Rifles, and I actually hunt with a few of them in certain conditions, and I also enjoy shooting them, and if you look at what one of them costs, and the historical legacy some of them have, it raises some eyebrows when folks learn I actually use them!
I just purchased SN 426 of the first production, first series MK-I .50 cal, and though it has been modified at some point in its history, it's still a very rare piece, and absolutely worthless to me if I cant take it out and shoot it and use it as it was meant to be! To some, that's blasphemy, and believe I need to be hung for said crime, but to others, it's legacy is only expanding with use!

 

[03A3Sporter]

Also, what IS the deal with Cimarron?

Is it true they get the pick-of-the-litter from Uberti and are therefore nicer/better?

I have owned a couple of Cimarron guns and they are nice, but from a finish perspective I would not see them being superior to the standard Uberti pistols. What Cimmaron does do is add or have added touches such as Ainsworth inspector marks on their military clones like the SAA Cavalry model

 

[Andy54Hawken]

Well since I shoot original guns , fairly often , which were made well before the guns of the era in the OP ,
I may be the wrong guy to ask...
But if the original is in safe firing shape...I would shoot it , maybe not in a "Cowboy Action" style of shooting match...but just for fun or when hunting....yep I would shoot it.

That said...my originals are not what I would call my "everyday" shooters.
I have some nice copies for that task.

For a Winchester copy...again I would suggest Uberti.
Speaking of Winchester...in the movie Tom Horn...McQueen did indeed use a '76 Winchester.
But from what I read....in real life tom Horn used 1894 Winchester rifle during the later part of his life.
( The time period that , the above mentioned excellent movie , takes place. )
Andy

 

[wired]

I'll add this. I own and have owned many 2nd and 3rd Colt 1873's ( SAA's ) and clones and Ive brought many Colts back from the grave. I have not owned sh!tty Italian clones save one Uberti I got in trade that was so bad I gave it to my brother. I have owned many US made USAA's and Standard Manufacturing guns. The clone guns especially the Standard Manufacturing 1873 clones are better guns in every measurable and quantifiable way than Colts. Better metal, better machined, better finished, trigger, forcing cones, lockup etc than any Colt ever made. More accurate ! That means nothing ( NOTHING ) to Colt guys. If it doesnt have a little pony it is garbage. You want a shooter buy a Standard. It will still cost you $2000. You want something to collect dust in a box buy a Colt.

 

[Jonnyuma]

Without getting too far into the weeds, I think you'd do pretty well with an Italian copy from Cimmaron.
Cimmaron sells/markets Uberti- and Pietta-made historic firearms, whether or not they get the pick of the litter, I don't know.
Quality between the two makers seems to be a matter of debate with top spot changing hands several times over the decades... to pick one over the other at this point in time would be like deciding between an HK and a German SiG, tiny degrees of separation.
Cimmaron often markets more than one copy of the same gun, for example: the Thunderer model from Uberti and the Thunderball from Pietta. Both copies (some variances from the original including, l believe, made slightly larger for 21st century-sized paws) of the Colt Lightening. I bought a Pietta Thunderball because it happened to be a little bit cheaper at the time.

For some truly drooly eye-candy on this smoky Saturday morning, check these guys out:

Home page

taylorsfirearms.com

 

[Medic!]

You see that blanket?


Yep.
It's a lousy reproduction.

 

[rednek80]

Pietta manufactured Cimarron 45 colt I just got for 399. So much fun. Goes well with my future Henry 45-70.....

 

[ma96782]

Buying an Italian clone?

IMHO.....
Make sure you got a good warranty or a good gunsmith to go to.

Though nowadays.....maybe less so.....vs. in the past.

Aloha, Mark

PS.....rememeber that old adage about bringing your mom's station wagon to the drag strip and expecting to see race car performance? Rrrrright.......so, plan accordingly.

 

[jbett98]

Chiappa makes some nice firearms.

 

[Cigarlvr313]

I have a few Colt SAA that I've purchased over the years, like back before the insanity hit.........my first was from PayLess Drugs in Gresham......a .22 Peacemaker that I bought in high school and has literally had thousands of rounds thru it but is still in it's original box with the original $97.00 receipt........long story short, I decided to give the Colts a "rest" and bought a couple of 4.75" Uberti Cattleman's in .357 and put Wolff Spring Kits in both of them. The fit and finish on both pistols is "very nice"........most people seeing them from a few feet away assume that they are "Colts". My vote is for Uberti..........they are very nice pistols.

 

[RVTECH]

Didn't see them mentioned (unless I missed it) is the option of a Miroku made 'Winchester' TM rifle.

Some have conflicting opinions on the Miroku made rifles (not quality) and it took me some time to 'warm' up to the idea of owning one and I would have but the one I had been looking at was gone when I went into the LGS to buy it!

Regardless the quality is incredible. Fit and finish is excellent with the Mirokus and very smooth actions.

Pricewise they are not much more than a similar Italian made model and, well, they do carry the 'W' word on the side - as well as country of origin - and I won't debate this as I was going to own one.

 

[Savvy_Jack]

Uberti is the best manufacture while Taylor's is the best Importer followed by Cimmaron.

I have several Uberti revolvers imported by several importers and have not had any problems with any of them in well over 10 years. They are road hard and put up wet! My Uberti 73' Winchester was imported by Cabelas and is a pleasure to shoot.

Rossi 92' Winchester is a plain jane rifle but seams to be reputable by many CAS shooters.

44-40 WebSite

 

[Hueco]

I'm open to the Italian's for a lever action - which are amazingly hard to find in pistol calibers right now.

This may not fit the bill for what you are looking for, but here's the first that I put together:
- Ruger Vaquero, grips from Altamont, new trigger + hammer + pawl from Power Customs, modified transfer bar, lighter trigger and hammer springs from Wolff. Feels wonderful now