What does As new mean to you

[jbett98]

 

[lucusloc]

+1 on "as new" meaning not fired. For me the difference between "as new" and "New in box" is "as new" may mean the gun is unfired, but could be missing the box/factory accessories, whereas NiB means it has everything. In my experience with reputable gun stores this seems to be the primary distinction between the two.

Anything past that is "slight use" or just plain used. I have seen plenty of guns in the commission case that were bought, taken to the range and had a mag or two shot through them, only to be brought back because the buyer did not like them. They still get the used tag, but are often only marked down $25-50 or so. They still have basically everything included, but used is used, so they can be a decent deal if you can't find a sale. I know some people like to say "if you shot it that is half the price" but I still see these guns get snapped up at a decent rate. One or two mags of use to save a decent % off of the new one in the next case over? Yeah, people take that deal.

 

[CamoDeafie]

New in packaging doesn't mean free from corrosion, especially if it wasn't packed in naval jelly , or had a coat of good oil, or was at any time exposed to air and moisture.

This is true for all things made with metal.

Gear related; I have bought literally new, unopened in plastic packaging, a 1994 contract USGI LBV, and it has that distinct smell of light mildew and rotted DWR. So . It was at one time exposed to humidity and not aired out.

Edit. That said; "as/like" new" should not be "looked good to us and we didn't look further so too bad for you"

 

[Nosferatu]

It means somebody is lying about it's actual condition.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

"As new" means "same as new"

 

[Bobbygun]

Honestly, if it was my ad, I wouldn't likely use the phrase "as new" because of different expectations. I would likely say something like, "It hasn't been shot, just moved around in the safe a bit." or "I ran one magazine through it, but cleaned it afterward and it could almost pass for new."

 

[Spitpatch]

"As new" (as I have learned it to mean in 60 years of gunshows/collecting/buying/selling) is a descriptor of APPEARANCE (as noted by a couple other contributors here).

Not a mark on the gun, no operational wear showing at all. It may well have been fired but that is indiscernible to the eye. A perfect gun.
Unfired? Maybe not.

"New with no box" is what most here have interpreted it to mean. "New with no box" might require the seller to convince the buyer the gun had never been shot.

As always, it is best practice to use the NRA terms of condition, or the Photo Percentage Grading System as much as possible when advertising a gun. (Separate criteria exist for modern firearms apart from that of antiques.) These levels of condition can be easily researched, including photo examples of what constitutes each.

Terms like "As new" and "appears unfired" and "like new" may be flowery and spice up the description, but it is up to the buyer to decide if the gun meets his interpretation of what each of those mean. A smidgin of doubt might indicate that an "inspection period" be negotiated, such as is done customarily with guns purchased online, not in the hand of the buyer.

 

[Stomper]

Not to derail the OBO thread I thought I would ask what everyone's definition of "as new" is currently for firearms. I may have told the story here about a gun I bought "as new" a while back.

So when does an item stop being as new and cross over into used territory?

 

[Nosferatu]

Honestly, if it was my ad, I wouldn't likely use the phrase "as new" because of different expectations. I would likely say something like, "It hasn't been shot, just moved around in the safe a bit." or "I ran one magazine through it, but cleaned it afterward and it could almost pass for new."

Or, "just found it under a 5-gallon bucket at the bottom of a hay pile. Slight pitting from the remaining good steel left on it. Chambers mostly clear of mud. Bore smooth as an illegal plastic straw. Carry bevel job done by Driveway Gravel Gunsmithing, LLC. Trigger is...there."

$5,000. No low-ballers, I know what I got.

 

[MannyGlocks]

If it's 'NEW', why place the word 'AS' before it?

However, to me 'As New' means it's 'not new', it's lightly used...is highly functional, looks like it's new, but, it's not...

'As New' also means: It's condition is 'questionable', until proven otherwise...

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Or, "just found it under a 5-gallon bucket at the bottom of a hay pile. Slight pitting from the remaining good steel left on it. Chambers mostly clear of mud. Bore smooth as an illegal plastic straw. Carry bevel job done by Driveway Gravel Gunsmithing, LLC. Trigger is...there."

$5,000. No low-ballers, I know what I got.

$4850. High as I'll go.

 

[ilikegunspdx]

…not...

'As New' also means: It's condition is 'questionable', until proven otherwise...

Damn straight!

The thing I dislike the most is when they say "minty". I close the ad immediately if I see that. I figure a person that says "minty" is probably going to try to upsell you on some new soy product he's hawking.

 

[bionic knees]

As far as I am concerned there are 2 conditions when it comes to firearms and most everything else. There is "NEW" and there is , "USED" there is no middle ground. Lightly used, barely used, like new is all used, period.

 

[Mark W.]

From a collectors rating point of view once a firearm leaves the premises of the dealer who first sells it it is no longer new. Now if that firearm is not fired kept in its box and not played with it can be called AS New. Once its been fired or shows any signs of the action being cycled (drag line on a cylinder wear marks on a slide or frame wear marks anywhere on the gun then its no longer AS NEW because those things do not appear on a new gun.

 

[MannyGlocks]

"As New" - Sounds like a line from a 'used car salesman'...

Price To Sell...said the uc salesman

Only driven on Sundays, he added...sound good Mr. Potential Buyer?

Ah, OK, it's...'used'...sigh...

 

[Spitpatch]

From a collectors rating point of view once a firearm leaves the premises of the dealer who first sells it it is no longer new. Now if that firearm is not fired kept in its box and not played with it can be called AS New. Once its been fired or shows any signs of the action being cycled (drag line on a cylinder wear marks on a slide or frame wear marks anywhere on the gun then its no longer AS NEW because those things do not appear on a new gun.

This is correct to a point. "As New" is an APPEARANCE quality, as Mark asserts.

I would point out, however, that the geographical location (inside or outside the original dealer's door) of the gun does not dictate whether or not it can honestly be described by a subsequent seller as "New" or "New in the Box" (NIB).

Any respectable gun show will have multiple firearms sold as "NIB" by dealers (or private parties) and that gun may well have changed hands multiple times previously. It is a gun with its box that both the seller and the buyer can agree they have no reason to believe the action has been worked or the gun fired after it left the factory.

Commemorative collectors live and die on this premise. Countless numbers of those guns are over 50 years old, may have changed hands 6-8 times in that period, and yet everyone involved with them can agree they are still "New in the Box".

They have to be, or they're not really anything special or worth a whole lot.

 

[Midasknight]

I've sold my firearms before and 99% were never fired but bought new from dealers. So when I've listed I say "not fired" or if fired xx numbers fired in my ad. I don't list "as new"

 

[Juniper9mm]

Fired, but could pass for new. It's the honesty statement.

 

[gmerkt]

As far as I am concerned there are 2 conditions when it comes to firearms and most everything else. There is "NEW" and there is , "USED" there is no middle ground. Lightly used, barely used, like new is all used, period.

Mostly agree. New is new and used is used. "Like new" and "as new" as condition descriptions are puffery. If the gun hasn't been fired since it left the factory and has been in a box and not handled, then it's mint but no longer new or new old stock. I think grades of used are acceptable, because they allow for variations in the used condition. Which we all know covers a very wide range of use from light to very heavy. "Little used, moderately used, and lightly used" in my opinion are fair so long as they are truthful. Then there is the percentage description. 99% would be a very nice gun that had been sold previously at least once.

It's only my opinion, but if a gun at a retail store has been previously sold elsewhere, it shouldn't be displayed as a new gun no matter how good it looks.

Another area where this can be a problem concerns guns ordered online. You send away for a gun on Gunbroker that is being sold as new, you expect to get a new gun. It has been known for some dealers to ship slightly used guns as new ones. Meaning, some guy bought a Model XYZ, fired it 50 times and didn't like it, took it back and traded it in. It still looked pretty good, box wasn't shopworn, etc. So the dealer listed it as a new gun and resold it as such. This isn't likely to happen if you buy from a larger firm, like Bud's for example. But there are plenty of smaller retailers selling online that might be tempted to do it.

 

[Spitpatch]

To clarify once more: The confusion seems to persist that phrases such as "like new", "as new", "appears new" are actually (semi-universally) recognized levels of condition.

They are not. They are representations by the seller, evaluated by the seller. It is up to the buyer to determine if the gun meets his needs and HIS definition of the above terms. Evidence on the buyer's side that contradict the seller's evaluation should be brought up at the time of sale as a point of negotiation.

Also, it is generally understood and agreed upon (or at least it WAS, and still SHOULD BE) that an inspection period is appropriate for any gun not held in the hand by the buyer at the time of sale. (internet/mail order sales). Most sales venues have this practice in place as a requirement to advertise the gun. Anyone purchasing a gun in this manner without insisting on an inspection period is literally "buying a pig in a poke", and a solid argument exists for that buyer getting what he deserves.

The buyer's evaluation of the gun to be "as new" may or may not agree with the seller's evaluation because it is an unspecific, relatively ambiguous term that is not a detailed description of condition. In other words, what the buyer "thinks" it means does not matter one whit. Basically, the phrase is no more definable than a term such as "spiffy".

This is why the generally accepted standards of condition exist, such as provided by the NRA and the PPGS, and should be employed. These grant an evaluation standard (with pictures of examples) that both buyer and seller can understand and operate under during a transaction. They provide points of debate with hard evidence in the case of a dispute.