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Vertical Feeding Sten Mod? Does it exist?

Discussion in 'NFA Weapon Discussion' started by teflon97239, Dec 11, 2012.

  1. teflon97239

    teflon97239 Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    Teetering on the brink of submitting ATF paperwork for a Sten build. The only hesitation I'm feeling is that darn left side feed business. I just don't like that. But if I can make it a vertical feeder, I'm doing it.

    The weapon doesn't need to be traditional or original for me, so doing a modification (as long as it's legal) would not diminish the value for my purposes. Rather, that would be the go-ahead.

    Has anyone here done this? Ideas? Links? Resources?

    Thanks in advance.
     
  2. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    the bolt is configured to feed from that side, so... seems like to accomplish what you want and still function the bolt will have to be rotated 90 degrees putting the charging handle on top, or the bolt can be drilled to relocate the handle back to the side.

    but wait there is more!!!! the new "bottom" of the bolt will have to be machined to engage the trigger mechanism.

    easy peasy
     
  3. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Unless you are a machine gun manufacturer you can't legally do it, period
     
  4. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    could do a semi format SBR version though....
     
  5. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    or easier yet a semi auto pistol.
     
  6. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Yep, I would go pistol and no paperwork
     
  7. teflon97239

    teflon97239 Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    I should've mentioned that I want it to be a full auto Sten MKII machine gun (if that's not forbidden language like "clip" or "tactical"). I'll also want the optional rifle stock and short barrel. Both moot points once ATF approves the full auto part I guess.

    I found a couple sten tube mods online and a buddy warned me those specific ones are illegal for this sort of application. So now I'm wondering if there's such a thing as a legal, vertical feed full auto sten, or if I'm just dreaming. Anyone know a legal and reliable way to skin this particular cat?
     
  8. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    No new production full auto firearms are available for public ownership that were manufactured after May of 1986. The ATF will not approve you to build your own full auto form or no form at this time unless you become a manufacturing FFL with an SOT. In short - as a citizen, not a licensed firearms manufacturer, your only option to legally possess/own a full auto would be to purchase an existing registered, transferable full auto (non dealer sample) that was registered prior to May of 1986. Those are a bit pricey - figure the least expensive transferable full autos are usually mac 11s and start in the $3500 range. I did see a registered STEN tube for $3700 listed on subguns in the NFA section as well.
     
    Blitzkrieg and (deleted member) like this.
  9. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Swedish K nailed it.
     
  10. teflon97239

    teflon97239 Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    That's the basis of the "build" I was trying to articulate. A registered Sten tube that'll cost me plenty (plus $200 to grease ATF's palm). I failed to convey that in the OP since I'm a total noob when it comes to speaking NFA language.

    Then add a Sten kit (barrel, stock, sights, etc.), so it goes ratatatatatat!

    NFA tube + ATF bribe + other parts + "build" = full auto Sten (not a semi-auto SBR or pistol).

    What that said, here's what I was trying to ask:

    In the properly obtained full auto Sten tube plus a Sten parts kit scenario, is there a legal and reliable way to assemble or modify those components in a way that the magazine can feed from underneath instead of from the original English left side port? Or is that verboten plain and simple? Hope I didn't further confuse things.

    Be patient guys, I'll say it right eventually. Any hope for my concept, or should I just go with a whole Mac (plus ATF) and call it good? Thanks for looking.
     
    Nwcid and (deleted member) like this.
  11. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I dont have direct answer for your question but....... The registered part (tube) IS the gun. This means you can build it anyway you like and it will be legal.
     
  12. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Swedish K detailed what I was referring to. Forget it, Ronald Reagan signed the end of all new civvy full autos back in 1986
     
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    Only if you can obtain a pre ban tube.. that means it was grandfathered
     
  14. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey - the Sten tube I found is right there in the pdx area.... NFA Firearms Ads

    You might want to go over and talk to them, maybe see if you can buy it direct from them if you are still going to do the build...

    Another option would be to go with an M/45 (AKA Swedish K) also in 9mm. It already has your vertical mag and can be had for a mere $11,500... http://www.sturmgewehr.com/webBBS/nfa4sale.cgi?read=153198
     
  15. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    So there's a few flies in the ointment here that weren't totally covered by Swede.

    If you buy a legally transferable sten receiver, in order to modify, or remake it, it must be done as a type 07/02 SOT.

    In order to make a legal "pistol" configuration sten, it must fire from a closed bolt (something the sten never did). Even in a SBR configuration, it must fire from the closed bolt.

    I think with the current conversation we've been having, you need to do some more reading on NFA law, because the ATF despite the fact that they've become very business friendly over the last few years, is still aggressive about putting people in jail for violating NFA (tax) law.

    Back when I was working for a type 10/02, I did a lot of reading on NFA law, and before we produced anything, we would do a rapid prototype (3d printed) and ask for type acceptance rulings. I would then print out the sections of 18USC that particular product would have to comply with, I would verify it with ATF, and only then would we try to produce a real version of what we were talking about. It pays to do your homework, and it also pays to get the ATF to "sign off" on what you're doing.
     
  16. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree with this. The "tube" is the gun and it is legal and registered. At this point he can make any changes to it he likes. If what you say is true then anyone that owns an "M-16" lower would not be able to swap uppers or any other parts on their own. The only thing that the ATF asks is that if there are any permanent changes to the original description (on the Form 1/4/ect) that they be notified so they can update the record.
     
  17. teflon97239

    teflon97239 Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Swedish. That's the Sten tube I've been eyeing. A friend of mine owns it, and I'd probably get a better deal than that. Talked to a licensed builder/assembler/expert in NH today who told me that a Sten tube simply cannot be legally modded to a bottom feeder, so that's out as far as I'm concerned.

    The Sten would be a cool wep to own, and a nice 9mm entry into the full auto realm, but I'm just not into the side feed thing. So since I can't mod the tube without ATF's blessing, no dice on that deal.

    I've got another bullet-hose that I'm ready to pounce on, a whole gun with mags and everything, and I'll make a decision on that one this evening. Then pony up the bucks (and photos and forms and fingerprints) and wait, and wait, and wait. Bureaucratic nonsense like that is a pain in the buttocks. Perhaps they add the delay on purpose to disuade impulse buyers?

    Maybe I should go over to the other forums and weigh in on the gun prejudice thing. No offense to anyone who owns one - I just can't hang with a side-feeder.
     
  18. jbett98

    jbett98 NW Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Besides the tube, doesn't the full auto sear and dis-connecter figure into what makes the Sten a select fire weapon?
     
  19. saxon

    saxon springfield Active Member

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  20. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Why cant you? Apparently I have missed that law.