Using small rifle primers in pistol loads

[coop44]

Got about 800 small rifle primers and I am low on small pistol primers, can I use them in my 40s&w loads? Will I have to adjust the powder charge down a bit?

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[osprey]

Yes and yes. Always prudent to adjust down and run across chrono to compare against same load with spp. This is especially true if up towards max load. If your load is at the lower end of the data then you probably don't need to back offf.

 

[Lesliet]

I would agree with osprey. I have used srp ( non magnum) in 9mm Luger loads, and they were very close to the same on the chrono as spp's, but this can vary with which powder, and how much. Caution is advised, but they can certainly be used.

 

[DizzyJ]

Small pistol magnum primers can be subbed as well, and they might light off easier than the rifle primers.

 

[coop44]

Currently use 6 grains of unique, pretty close to the limit, so I suppose I will drop back to 5.5.

 

[MfnLeadFarmer]

Same question here with magnum SPP under .45acp. I'm planning on using the slowest powder I have which is AA7 with 200gr cast bullet as well as 230gr RNFMJ. I've done a ton of research and there's no definitive published load data from any manual I've looked in. I'm going to use min loads and compare via the chrono to loads with SPP then work up. This chart was helpful in my decision based on my research. YMMV. Advice is welcomed.


Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart

 

[padraig]

There are 2 basic differences between pistol and rifle primers. First, the thickness of the striking face (because rifle firing pins hit harder) and next the formulation of the primer accelerant (which is why many brands are color-coded). The SRP is about equal to a SMPP in terms of burn rate but if your handgun has a reduced mainspring you may get a failure to ignite because of the thickness.

Then again you should be able to trade your SPPs for SRPs straight across . I'd do the trade if I were closer...

 

[Mikej]

Same question here with magnum SPP under .45acp. I'm planning on using the slowest powder I have which is AA7 with 200gr cast bullet as well as 230gr RNFMJ. I've done a ton of research and there's no definitive published load data from any manual I've looked in. I'm going to use min loads and compare via the chrono to loads with SPP then work up. This chart was helpful in my decision based on my research. YMMV. Advice is welcomed.


Hodgdon Burn Rate Chart

Using a burn rate chart, nice! I've always considered looking at the burn rate chart to be an important part of reloading for me.

Here's some data from Accurate Arms...
Page 38

http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf?_ga=2.48495846.1303908972.1609948504-2054747910.1608658285

After consulting the burn rate chart I would surmise that AA7 may be a bit too slow for .45acp. I'm thinking you may have unburnt powder, muzzle flash due to incomplete burn, and when using cast may have leading. (I'm not much a cast bullet guy, so only going on what I've heard as far as BHN relating to burn rates.)

 

[MfnLeadFarmer]

Using a burn rate chart, nice! I've always considered looking at the burn rate chart to be an important part of reloading for me.

Here's some data from Accurate Arms...
Page 38

http://www.ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf?_ga=2.48495846.1303908972.1609948504-2054747910.1608658285

After consulting the burn rate chart I would surmise that AA7 may be a bit too slow for .45acp. I'm thinking you may have unburnt powder, muzzle flash due to incomplete burn, and when using cast may have leading. (I'm not much a cast bullet guy, so only going on what I've heard as far as BHN relating to burn rates.)

I was thinking that too but didn't want to push it with magnum primers. I have AA2, AA5, AA7, and Winny 572. You think those faster powders with min grains would be ok?

Also, the cast bullets I have are polymer coated, not sure if that even matters. I'm just trying to stay on the safe side.

PS the data you referenced is for.45 colt, I'm loading ACP. Does your advice still pertain to the ACP data as well? Thanks in advance.

 

[P7M13]

Primer cup web thicknesses are different between manufacturers too -- one reason why almost all my pistols have hammers.

 

[Mikej]

I was thinking that too but didn't want to push it with magnum primers. I have AA2, AA5, AA7, and Winny 572. You think those faster powders with min grains would be ok?

Also, the cast bullets I have are polymer coated, not sure if that even matters. I'm just trying to stay on the safe side.

PS the data you referenced is for.45 colt, I'm loading ACP. Does your advice still pertain to the ACP data as well? Thanks in advance.

'Scuse me, page 35. I don't use any of the AA powders. IF, I came to using AA I would be looking for a powder more around the burn rate of what I DO use in .4acp. W231/HP38 burn rate powders. A lot of people love their Unique, bullseye and TiteGroup in their .45acp. Just because you can find data for a powder and bullet, doesn't mean it's a good performer. It only means they used it and show what velocity and pressure resulted. I guess " Your Mileage May Vary" is really true here!
Regarding Polymer coated cast bullets, I've never used them, but common knowledge pretty much says treat them similar to cast bullets. .45 acp isn't really a screaming, high pressure round anyway, so "I" would expect you could run them with any powder combo that you find data for.

 

[ruger45blackhawk]

Primer cup web thicknesses are different between manufacturers too -- one reason why almost all my pistols have hammers.

ALMOST--

 

[P7M13]

ALMOST--

And you've seen my R51.....
Had a Steyr M40 that had a light striker spring. Wouldn't set off a brand of primers (Win?)
I've heard some glocks suffer the same fate.

 

[arakboss]

Currently use 6 grains of unique, pretty close to the limit, so I suppose I will drop back to 5.5.

Let us know how it goes and where you end up with the charge weight. I think a lot of us are going to have to do little experimenting if this primer situation doesn't improve anytime soon.

 

[Mecanik]

I would have guessed that some test facility would have tested substituting primers back and forth and published results by now......

 

[arakboss]

I would have guessed that some test facility would have tested substituting primers back and forth and published results by now......

But lawyers and accountants probably said don't you dare publish that data. Remember the good old days when Winchester sold primers like this.

 

[MfnLeadFarmer]

But lawyers and accountants probably said don't you dare publish that data. Remember the good old days when Winchester sold primers like this.

View attachment 803021

Haha just traded for some LPP in the same era sleeve.

 

[arakboss]

Haha just traded for some LPP in the same era sleeve.

I think these primers had a sturdier cup compared to the blue sleeve era primers.

 

[The Heretic]

Primer cup web thicknesses are different between manufacturers too -- one reason why almost all my pistols have hammers.

So generally, would a revolver have a stronger/harder strike on a primer than say a hammer fired semi?

And hammer fired semi more than striker? <- This makes sense to me.

 

[arakboss]

So generally, would a revolver have a stronger/harder strike on a primer than say a hammer fired semi?

And hammer fired semi more than striker? <- This makes sense to me.

I wondered this too? I assumed revolvers would strike harder than striker fired pistols.