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Ugly primers?

Discussion in 'Ammunition & Reloading' started by sterzenbach, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. sterzenbach

    sterzenbach Bend Oregon Active Member

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    Heres my 5-15th .223 loads made. They shot very well and pulled a decent group. But the primers just don't look right to me. I remember seeing bad primer pics awhile back. What do you guys think?
    The load was:
    CFE .223 27g cci small rifle magnum primers Nosler 55g varmageddon. and misc micrometer checked cases(my .223 supply of matched cases was slim).

    Any insight?
    Thanks guys
    20131124_193449_zpse4bb601e.jpg
     
  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Looks like the firing pin hit them pretty hard along with maybe the bolt face a little. AR's tend to like hard cased primers like CCI #41's (hard to find currently)
     
  3. sterzenbach

    sterzenbach Bend Oregon Active Member

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    Sorry sorry forgot to say that these are out of a custom Remington 700.
     
  4. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    I didn't look up your load data but if your loads are really light, your primers often wind up sticking up/proud from the primer pocket, instead of being flush.
    Some of yours might look like they aren't flush.. I think this is another picture of yours..
    It's easy to check, put them on a flat/hard surface and see if they wobble at all.. well, unless the extractor screwed up the rim.

    20131124_193431_zps2e102d36.jpg

    perhaps not a big deal except in revolvers.
     
  5. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    IMO they look too hot with recratered primers.. what is your charge/powder/primer/bullet, again? I don't have data for the components you listed but others will.. be careful
     
  6. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    The firing pin hole looks a little big relative to the firing pin causing that slight flow around the hit proper.. they don't look too hot to me at all.. just my opinion
     
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  7. WAYNO

    WAYNO Oregon City Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    This is my opinion also. There's a little something going on with the firing pin and/or firing pin hole, but I don't see any primer flowing elsewhere.

    WAYNO.
     
  8. sterzenbach

    sterzenbach Bend Oregon Active Member

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    Thanks guys, I knew something didn't look right. My charge is 27g of cfe 223 with a 55g bullet. According to nosler's 7th ed load manual that's a medium load. the bolt and pin is stock on my Remington.
     
  9. 2ndtimer

    2ndtimer SE Washington state Active Member

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    My Remington 700 SPS Varmint has done the same thing since it was new, both with handloads and factory ammo. I believe that either the firing pin is a little undersized or the firing pin aperture is a little oversized. I have also fired an identical load with the same results in my Remington. The same loads don't crater the primers when fired in my Weatherby Vanguard Varmint Special or my S&W M&P 15 Sport. (But the Remington still outshoots the others in spite of the cratered primers.) The hotter the load, the more cratering of primers is apparent, but it doesn't seem to be hurting anything as my SPS Varmint has digested a couple of thousand rounds and still shoots around 1/2 MOA.
     
  10. Otter

    Otter Oregon - mid Willamette Valley Active Member

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    Not a hot load. The primers are still rounded on the edges...not flattened at all.

    Those primers look exactly like the ones out of my Remington model 700 .223, including the little dimple in the center of the primer strike. I was at first concerned about the raised lip around the primer strike, but a couple guys at the range said that was normal. I shoot 26 grains of Varget in my .223 by the way. Interestingly enough, my Savage and Wby .223 have a much cleaner looking primer strike.
     
  11. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

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    OK I'll buy the rounded edges thing but the centers are indeed wierd.. something is indeed amiss. I've never seen it before
     
  12. the4thshake

    the4thshake Portland Active Member

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  13. sterzenbach

    sterzenbach Bend Oregon Active Member

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    I did do some research after hearing similar rem 700 stories, turns out we're not alone. There's tons of threads all over the web about the issue. Some people contacted Remington and have some b/s excuse that its a special design..... Dodged that warranty lol. I am going to be trying a lighter load anyways, work with IMR 4895 a bit. Thanks for the link the4thshake il defiantly grab that my next paycheck! The primers popped right out good and the cases are still in SAAMI spec. Nothing out of the ordinary.
     
  14. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I think your load is fine, however when using the magnum primer I would back off your load a bit (~24-25gn) you really shouldn't be using magnum primers for a max load like that unless you're trying to ensure ignition during sub-zero temperatures (even then, I would run an IMR powder instead of a ball powder).
     
  15. sterzenbach

    sterzenbach Bend Oregon Active Member

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    Awesome thanks AM. Actually all I could find was the magnums, I am looking for standard.
     
  16. 2ndtimer

    2ndtimer SE Washington state Active Member

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    Have you tried factory ammo? Did it also crater the primers? (Mine does). Backing off the load might reduce the cratering somewhat, but it will also reduce performance and possibly accuracy (unless you luck into an accuracy node at reduced velocity, it can happen). Even with a magnum primer, I don't think your original load is too hot. I have used CCI-450 with max loads before without problems. It actually has a harder cup that might mitigate the cratering somewhat. Now if you tried that load with a Remington 6 1/2 primer, you might have some pierced primers to deal with.
    If you really are concerned about the cratered primers, probably the oversized firing pin option is your best bet. What does it say about Remington's quality control that there are vendors out there manufacturing such a product and have enough demand to stay in business?
     
  17. sterzenbach

    sterzenbach Bend Oregon Active Member

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    Yeah really.... Youd think they just send the new pins out.. Not that big of a problem?
    I haven't tried factory besides tulammo, and it was awhile ago. Ive been meaning to grab a box of factory. All my rifles are .308/.30.06, don't have any 223 stocked up yet.
     
  18. WAYNO

    WAYNO Oregon City Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I'm kind of anal about looking at fired cases and primers. Looking at fired primers can tell stories about a cartridge, and about the gun it was fired in.

    As I said before, I see no obvious overpressure signs. I do see a less than textbook-perfect firing pin dent. But, if it was mine...As long as the gun ignites any primer it could be expected to ignite, and as long as it's not piercing primers, I'd not be worried. I would continue to inspect primers, as I do anyway, and see if anything changes over time.

    WAYNO.
     
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  19. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    A magnum primer in a max load will create an over-pressure situation, just because the gun can handle it, and the primer doesn't show excessive signs of pressure doesn't mean it's not a problem. Just because a gun may handle 3-4x max chamber pressure doesn't mean you should load your ammo that way... load your ammo to manufacturer specifications, it's the best way I know to stay out of trouble.