Thoughts on Using a Gun to Defend Your Property

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by RicInOR, Nov 1, 2018.

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  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR
    Washington County
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  2. SHPD_Retired

    SHPD_Retired
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    You can only use deadly physical force when your life or the life of others are in danger. You cannot use it to protect property, at least in Oregon.
     
  3. etrain16

    etrain16
    Oregon
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    That's what I've been told, clearly, in every class I've taken. Deadly force is for defense of life only, at least, as you say, in Oregon.
     
  4. Jonnyuma

    Jonnyuma
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    Individual thoughts don't matter much in this context. It's a state issue.

    I think a threat to property accompanied by the threat of physical assault often gets willfully mischaracterized by anti gun-ownership zealots as simple theft or whatever additional crime was being committed at the time. A woman shoots a carjacker who threatened her w a knife and gets pilloried... (gotta say this in that snarky, lispy liberal voice)"We don't punish car theft with the death penalty." They'll do the same when some thug gets shot inside your home, business, or any other violent invasion that doesn't end up with YOU hospitalized or dead.

    I hate those people.
     
  5. Stomper

    Stomper
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    John Adams says.....


    "Resistance to sudden violence, for the preservation not only of my person, my limbs, and life, but of my property, is an indisputable right of nature which I have never surrendered to the public by the compact of society, and which perhaps, I could not surrender if I would."
    --- John Adams, Boston Gazette, Sept. 5, 1763,reprinted in 3 The Works of John Adams 438 (Charles F. Adams ed., 1851).
     
  6. Kruel J

    Kruel J
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    Firearms and property crimes don't mix.
     
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  7. Stomper

    Stomper
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    I’ve had this discussion many times in the past and I forget the pertinent ORS at this very moment.... BUT deadly force is deemed justified and reasonable when used against someone breaking into a DWELLING (not a detached garage, not a tool/garden shed, not a car, not an office building).

    It’s there, look it up. ;)
     
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  8. AndyinEverson

    AndyinEverson
    Everson, Wa.
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    While I do like and agree with John Adams...He unfortunately cannot be my lawyer....:eek::D
    So with that in mind...
    Unless my life or the lives of others are in danger and I have exhausted all other options...I will not not use force to defend my property , regardless of my personal views on the subject.
    Andy
     
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  9. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf
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    My car is a Pinto so that'd be a hanging offense.
     
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  10. Alexx1401

    Alexx1401
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    I know it is a PITA to have scum steal what you worked your butt off for. I know it is tempting to stop them. I also know that if I decide to shoot some scum because he is stealing from me I am leaving my a$$ hanging out in the wind, so I would not do it.
    Now if I was "King" and made the rules? Using any force to stop scum like this would be fine. Here in the real world it's not cut and dried. Even if you are never charged with a crime bottom feeders may well come after you. This gets costly.
    All too often someone who should know better uses a gun when their life was NOT in danger. It never goes "easy" for them after that. So to each his own. If I end up on your jury and you did this? I am not going to go against you BUT, anyone who has ever been to jury duty knows there are a LOT of "ignorant" people there. This is who has your fate in their hands.
     
  11. Alexx1401

    Alexx1401
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    Again this situation would depend a LOT on the mouth of the shooter after it's over. Assuming you are on the inside, scum is outside, trying to get in. You can say rightly so you feared for life. IF, here is the big IF, you do not talk yourself into a problem when the Police start asking "why".
    Not to mention even when the Courts are done and decide you were fine it does NOT mean it's over. Family may come out of the wood work to come after you for money. For taking their beloved, just getting their life back on track, on the way to college loved one.
     
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  12. Jonnyuma

    Jonnyuma
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    Many years ago (almost 20) in another state (AZ) I had some mescreants steal my old Blazer right out of my driveway. My wife was in the front room and saw my truck leaving... thought it was odd that I was going out at that time (around 0100), and also that I didn't say goodbye, so she came into the bedroom, saw me asleep and told me someone just stole my truck... took me about 5 seconds to be out the front door, gun in hand, and chasing the creeps down the road.
    They must have seen something they didn't like (presumably in the rearview mirror) and bailed leaving the truck in Drive. My assumption is that they figured catching my truck before something really terrible happened would be my priority vs catching them... they were right... I caught the old K5 before it made a garage out of a neighbors living room and they got away.
    When the cops came they said it was probably just a couple of sh*theads passing through the neighborhood and wanted a ride home, they picked an older vehicle for the simplicity. They thanked me for not shooting the theives (the second time I'd had an AZ cop say that to me), and left after getting some contact info.
    How does that pertain? I honestly believe that a similar situation in P-land c.2018 would end up w me in cuffs and having a whole lot more to deal with the next day than sore feet and hammys... it was a full sprint w/out shoes... or pants o_O
    The gun wasn't to shoot the azzhats outright... that would be a questionable shoot, even in AZ. It was for defenseive purposes if I actually caught them. Today, especially in OR, WA, or KA, my actions would probably be viewed as hostile and/or actionable, an escalation of force, blah blah blah.
    I think I was born 100 yrs out of my time.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  13. Camelfilter

    Camelfilter
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    In fear for my life (or families lives) I shot XYZ. He, she, it gave me no other alternatives.

    I’m incredibly traumatized, surely you understand, and while I will cooperate fully with your investigation, I will only speak to you further with my attorney present...
     
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  14. gmerkt

    gmerkt
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    I'm not a lawyer but the following are my views. In Wash., the statutes are written in such a way as to include the word "reasonable."

    But these days, you're more apt to get in trouble using a gun for defense than not. Yes to saving your life, no to protecting property that otherwise doesn't endanger your life. Let the "stuff" go, it's not worth combat on the field or in the courtroom.

    To this day, the entertainment industry is still churning out films depicting officers shooting at suspects fleeing in vehicles. Just not legally done, not even the cops are allowed to do it. Once the offender turns his back, legally the shooting must stop. Even if he's driving away in your car with your TV in the back seat.
     
  15. Jonnyuma

    Jonnyuma
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    "Once the offender turns his back, legally the shooting must stop."
    That's a pretty good rule of thumb, but it's not absolute, at least not for commissioned police officers. For a regular Joe, the case that you or I were foiling an egregious and imminent assult had better be air tight.
    I totally get what you're saying as it pertains to self-defense... if the baddie is leaving, the threat is over. Further action will be presented and prosecuted as vigilantism or retribution... not a good look and tough to defend in court.
    We are not bound by law to protect others, we just know innately what the right thing to do is... paraphrasing and shortening a lesson I taught to my boys (when they were in school) "You always protect the weaker kid... even if that kid is an a-hole".
    Digression from my original point /over... I'd shoot someone in the back if they were about to seriously harm or kill "the weaker kid", also assuming I had no other recourse or ability to employ less-than-lethal means effectively. No, it's not Plan A, but it's on the table and 100% controllable by the other party... don't DO that, especially if I'm around.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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  16. 11Charlie

    11Charlie
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    My shop is detached and I am usually in it. o_O I fear for the guy that breaks into it while I am in there. ;)
     
  17. Tony617

    Tony617
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    What about an occupied office where there is only one door out and walls and/or windows only and the office is greater than 3 feet above the ground. Can you use a firearm then or jump out the window assuming you can break the glass? A lot of office windows cannot be broken in office buildings except in certain panels. I have worked in several office buildings like this over the years.

    That assumes that the person is holding a gun, knife, baseball bat or other deadly weapon that can kill you.
     
  18. nwslopoke

    nwslopoke
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    Sounds like a bad case if Toxic Masculinity. Portland has a cure for that.
     
  19. albin25

    albin25
    Lewiston Idaho
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    After the thug is "taken care of", and before the authorities arrive....
    .....would it be a good idea to fire a couple of warning shots into the ceiling? :confused:

    Either way, I'm going to dig that walker out from the back of the guestroom's closet and I'll be using it when I let the cops in.;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  20. Stomper

    Stomper
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    Folks.... Jury nullification.


    Learn persuasion skills, juries eat that stuff up! ;)
     

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