Thought exercise. "Making" a SBS or AOW?

[toast]

Two pistols with extended mags to serve as a bipod...

 

[CamoDeafie]

Ive found one post on Reddit where the guy claims that the ATF says because he's attaching the 12ga device to a rifle, the rifle stock is counted and thus making his 12ga device a "shotgun" or combination gun, and as long as it's both 18"+ barrel on the shotgun part, and 26" OAL on the combination gun part, he's good to go and it wouldn't be NFA but if under 18" barrel it becomes a Short Barrel Shotgun regardless of whether it started out as a shotgun or Firearm? He was talking about attaching a Tac-14 to an AR.

@wired do you have any idea what the ATF says relating to such combinations if they have barrels longer than 12" and are "not concealable"? I know the C-More M-26 12ga underbarrel device is an AOW device. I also see that on auction sites the Remington 870 based underbarrel devices are either transferable AOWs or SBS...

 

[wired]

If its attached to the rifle as a sub 18" barrel shotgun its an AOW. It cannot have started out as a shotgun meaning it has to be made from a "firearm" or a bare receiver. If its a standalone device with a buttstock its a shotgun either short or long.

 

[Spitpatch]

A nice little Savage Model 24 would accomplish the same thing:

Kill anything that walks from 10ft to 200 yards.

 

[CamoDeafie]

If its attached to the rifle as a sub 18" barrel shotgun its an AOW. It cannot have started out as a shotgun meaning it has to be made from a "firearm" or a bare receiver. If its a standalone device with a buttstock its a shotgun either short or long.

If made from say, a normal shotgun, but has 18.5" barrel, does GCA 68 OAL come into play when attached to AR?

 

[wired]

If made from say, a normal shotgun, but has 18.5" barrel, does GCA 68 OAL come into play when attached to AR?

Nope

 

[CamoDeafie]

Underbarrel Mounting Bracket only

the original commercially available Underbarrel mounting bracket on the market.purpose built to be stronger than the original style mount using all steel hardware for the connecting features to ensure years of long life. allows for non N.F.A. builds using 18 inch barrels.CNC machined from...

armed-to-the-teeth-technologies.myshopify.com

Hm. This plus my dad's old Remington 870, change barrel to 18.5-20". Find gunsmith to drill and tap receiver for the mount. Only question is the barrel clamp. The same people do sell the clamp, but may have to get it machined to fit HBAR barrel profile?

Could always Form 1 the Remington in order to get barrel shorter and so that I could mount to 16" M4 style AR. I don't know.

Eh. Mental exercises lol.

 

[CamoDeafie]

@wired

If I were to buy this

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shotguns/remington-tac-14-black-oxide-12-gauge-3in-pump-action-firearm-14in/p/1707721?srsltid=AfmBOorPU1mATrceLH_zSgRM6e712pZArbpC-oWJlP5DphGH6NZkRzMW

And then remove the bird head grip (-5.5"),
Then mount to M203 bracket, that turns it into an AOW, correct, because it would be under 26" overall length, and not made from a shotgun? Or does the AR turn it into a "shotgun" because of the shoulder stock, and thus I'd still need 18"+ barrel?

 

[ilikegunspdx]

@wired

If I were to buy this

https://www.sportsmans.com/shooting-gear-gun-supplies/shotguns/remington-tac-14-black-oxide-12-gauge-3in-pump-action-firearm-14in/p/1707721?srsltid=AfmBOorPU1mATrceLH_zSgRM6e712pZArbpC-oWJlP5DphGH6NZkRzMW

And then remove the bird head grip (-5.5"),
Then mount to M203 bracket, that turns it into an AOW, correct, because it would be under 26" overall length, and not made from a shotgun? Or does the AR turn it into a "shotgun" because of the shoulder stock, and thus I'd still need 18"+ barrel?

You want to add 5.6 pounds (not counting any brackets/adapters) onto the front of your AR?

 

[CamoDeafie]

You want to add 5.6 pounds (not counting any brackets/adapters) onto the front of your AR?

I want something impractical but fun that doesn't look like a M203 37mm flare launcher a 12ga underbarrel device would tickle that for me... But it is a moot point anyhow because it's either out of stock everywhere, or costs too dang much for an already made transferable version

 

[ilikegunspdx]

I want something impractical but fun that doesn't look like a M203 37mm flare launcher a 12ga underbarrel device would tickle that for me... But it is a moot point anyhow because it's either out of stock everywhere, or costs too dang much for an already made transferable version

I couldn't imagine holding such a beast but if it's just for monkeying around then it doesn't matter I guess.

 

[CamoDeafie]

I couldn't imagine holding such a beast but if it's just for monkeying around then it doesn't matter I guess.
View attachment 2096873

Eh. I can think of worse ways to add 6-8 pounds up front

Edit. I mean I can get 12ga shot shells easily, anywhere, and have use.... Can't quite say the same for the flare launchers, especially in Oregon where pyrotechnic things may get me into trouble with local police and ODFW edit 2. I'm well aware that they're legal to have,.legal to own, legal to use... It's just the types of rounds.. smoke, flares, pyrotechnics(fireworks)... That gets sticky with regards to where I can shoot them off without LE looking at me funny or thinking I need rescuing

 

[ilikegunspdx]

Eh. I can think of worse ways to add 6-8 pounds up front

Edit. I mean I can get 12ga shot shells easily, anywhere, and have use.... Can't quite say the same for the flare launchers, especially in Oregon where pyrotechnic things may get me into trouble with local police and ODFW edit 2. I'm well aware that they're legal to have,.legal to own, legal to use... It's just the types of rounds.. smoke, flares, pyrotechnics(fireworks)... That gets sticky with regards to where I can shoot them off without LE looking at me funny or thinking I need rescuing

Those Lockhart ones in the pic they are taking preorders for the mount.

 

[CamoDeafie]

Those Lockhart ones in the pic they are taking preorders for the mount.

They're Canadian, so possible ITAR restricted/import restrictions, unless there's an US website for them? I do see https://tyr1outfitters.net/k-t-m-s-12/ make them with a retail of $2,000 plus transfer tax like I said, either out of stock or ridiculously high priced versus LMT M203 37mm. 37mm launchers that don't look like M203s, I can find cheaper than LMT but they require railed handguards and that's basically only my M4 Carbine, not 20" AR unless I acquire a quadrail for it.

 

[CamoDeafie]

C-More M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System 12 Gauge (SBS)

C-More M26 Modular Accessory Shotgun System 12 Gauge (SBS) Available at OTBFirearms. We have a large inventory of Class III items in stock. Shop 24/7 online.

otbfirearms.com

Speaking of ridiculously expensive.....

 

[ilikegunspdx]

They're Canadian, so possible ITAR restricted/import restrictions, unless there's an US website for them? I do see https://tyr1outfitters.net/k-t-m-s-12/ make them with a retail of $2,000 plus transfer tax like I said, either out of stock or ridiculously high priced versus LMT M203 37mm. 37mm launchers that don't look like M203s, I can find cheaper than LMT but they require railed handguards and that's basically only my M4 Carbine, not 20" AR unless I acquire a quadrail for it.

Every mount imaginable is available from China in many places and on Amazon. Why would this simple mount be any different?

 

[CamoDeafie]

Every mount imaginable is available from China in many places and on Amazon. Why would this simple mount be any different?

Because I ain't gonna risk shearing off cheap Picatinny rail grippers from a 3" 12ga slug? same goes for just drilling and tapping for mounting directly to handguards like the Predator Mossberg setup, though it could be stronger, but relying only on the strength of the plastic clamshell handguard half and hoping the magwell will support the recoil is kinda an iffy proposition to me.

A M203 style mount, or the Ciener/Wilson bayonet lug/extended takedown pin yoke setup would make me feel a little better.

Is a moot point anyhow, as I'm not even sure I can justify the money to get three different things (M203 mount, front barrel mount, 12 ga device with transfer tax or paying a machinist to do my dad's 870 receiver and getting 18.5" barrel).

Like I said all the way back at the beginning of thread.. it's more of a thought exercise

Edit, now if there was a hammerless, single shot, break open 12ga that I could chop barrel to 18.5" length, and I could ensure it fits in the space, and a way to mount the M203 mount to the barrel of said break open .. maybe there's an idea but I don't know... I can't help but think that there's a reason such a thing don't exist, except the Ten-X Ammo thingy that's only for LE/MIL use

Basically a micro 203 12ga device.