This hits home.

[Oregonhunter5]

grew up with this guy. Funny as hell. Solid family. Clean cut. He was a little odd at times. Had that crazy look. But watch the video. That guy is small like he always was. Would a taser work? Maybe a fist?


http://www.deseretnews.com/article/...-officer-prior-to-fatal-Avenues-shooting.html

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[IheartSig]

He escalated the situation. He hit him twice with a shovel, that we saw. Hit him while he was on his back. Play stupid games, you win stupid prizes.

 

[OLDNEWBIE]

"The video shows the sky as the officer presumably tumbles from the porch. The footage ends a second later as the blue shovel lands a second blow, breaking the camera.
The moment that followed seconds later, when Barker was shot and killed by the unidentified officer, was not recorded.
The officer was hit by the shovel "several" times, police said, and suffered fractured bones in an arm and foot."

Shovel seemed non lethal plastic?, but officer had lost his footing and was down and injured and still getting attacked.

Shovel guy had a chance to run away. Maybe he was at his own house, I don't know.

Officer had a responsibility to not get beat unconscious letting angry guy with shovel potentially get his gun.

Officer was responding to a complaint and had a duty to I.D.

Shovel guy screwed up.

 

[mjbskwim]

I have been dumb enough to drop a piece of concrete on a shovel that ,then sprung up and hit me in the side of the head with the hickory handle.
EFFIN stung!
I was good with a shovel. I would have near killed someone had I hit them with a shovel at that age.
That said,I would have planted him as soon as I thought he would hit me with it

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I hear you guys loud and clear. I do....
It's just hard to see a person I knew well going through this situation. It's sad and strange all in one.
I'm gonna guess he had some mental breakdown through the years. I haven't seen him since high school. Really talented kid. Smart. Fun. Witty.
I guess I'm just questioning what other method could of been taken. I do know one thing, the cop didn't handle the approach the right way. But pay cops 50k a year and you get 50k worth of people skills I guess. Cause I know I would have way more advantage in that area.
Again stop thinking guns and think more about you knew this person and well...
I dated his sister.

 

[clearconscience]

I don't see how you defend that guy.
He went from zero to sixty in a matter of seconds and being really defensive. He had to be on drugs or was mentally defective.

There was no f-ing snow around!

 

[Oregonhunter5]

I don't see how you defend that guy.
He went from zero to sixty in a matter of seconds and being really defensive. He had to be on drugs or was mentally defective.

There was no f-ing snow around!

Very true.
I think it was a mental issue. For sure.
As I posted earlier I mentioned a more charismatic approach. But maybe it needed another approach. Maybe you have your taser pulled from the time you hit the sidewalk.

 

[clearconscience]

Maybe you should take your friendship out of it.
I'm sure if this cop knew him for 20 years he wouldn't have gotten a shovel choping his arse.

I don't see any problem with the way the cop handled it. He wasn't rude or aggressive in any way until the guy flipped his demeanor and started freaking out.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Maybe you should take your friendship out of it.
I'm sure if this cop knew him for 20 years he wouldn't have gotten a shovel choping his arse.

I don't see any problem with the way the cop handled it. He wasn't rude or aggressive in any way until the guy flipped his demeanor and started freaking out.

Maybe the cop should of asked him to come shovel some snow at the station.

 

[Mikej]

The lesson here, once again , don't hit cops! You can think about it, but doonn't do-it.

They're going to protest too.

Yippee!

 

[Oregonhunter5]

"I haven't seen him since high school."

While I understand the difficulty you may be having over seeing someone you know end up in such a manner...that Cop saw him much more recently than High School...
...people change, not always for the better.

A cop's life is now undergoing change as well, I hope that change won't be negative.

Once again I hear what you all are saying. Things Like this just make you think. I'm not throwing blame towards the cop. I'm just thinking out loud. Anyone that's read my past threads know I suppport cops through and through.

 

[clearconscience]

I'm sure none of us are wanting or meaning to attack your friend either.

It's a crappy thing and no matter how you slice it you'll never get the answers you want or need and the meaning behind it all will never be found.
Life is just that way. It's a constant reminder that life changes every second. Sometimes for the better, sometimes to the end.

We've all lost people close to us and way too soon. It's those people you should thank for teaching us life's most important lesson. Time is losing sand everyday. Make the most out of it, don't sweat the small stuff, and learn to truly enjoy and soak in the great moments life throws at you.

 

[308]

Anyone who thinks this is just a plastic shovel should reconsider. I have one similar to that and the metal edge is sharp enough to cut flesh, and that LEO could have had his neck sliced.

Seems like another Darwin dummy reaping his reward.

 

[jbett98]

Sometimes I think that there's an 'inevitability' in some peoples lives.
What I mean is that for some folks, they will never have a happy ending to their lives.
They won't get married to the right person, or be a good parent and save up for retirement like society says were suppose too and enjoy our golden years without being a burden on our families.
Whether it's a mental imbalance or just plain bad luck for whatever reason, some people move though life in a downward spiral which culminates in endings like this one.

 

[IronMonster]

No Offense Oregonhunter but my take on this whole thing is it sheds light on some of those crazy lawsuits. Like the one currently going on by all the Sandy Hook parents. They are suing people who ultimately had nothing to do with why there children are dead. They are dead because a mad man wanted them dead. There is no meaning or blame to be had because the crazy person is dead as well as the person who raised him. But blame must be laid because that madman took everything from them. Someone has to pay for this evil that has been done against them. So they sue the person who made the gun, the person who sold the gun, The business where the gun was sold. None of these people are responsible. None of them did anything wrong or could have prevented this tragedy but there is no one else they can blame and it has to be someone's fault. I think when you suffer those kinds of loss it is normal to feel wronged. You get the "If Only's" Which can go on for ever. The more the person meant to you the crazier those If Only's can get.

I think your relationship with this guy is effecting how you feel about this. Your logic is unaffected. You still see that this guy started assaulting a cop. You know that the cop had every right to respond. At some level you know that no one is responsible for this but the guy swinging the shovel. BUT because there is a bit of emotion involved your mind starts trying to find blame that does not lay with your friend. It starts that If Only game.

Trust me, I have played this game. My oldest son hung himself at 19 because he was distraught over a girl. A girl who he intended to marry who met another guy away at collage. At 19 you simply dont have enough life experience to know that that world ending hurt you feel is temporary. But he was alone, had other things going on in his life and in a moment made a irrevocable choice. I know it was impulsive. He had plans for the next day, He had just bought grocery's. He had told people he was going to meet them the next morning. He worked for me at the time. I was upset the last time I saw him. Mad because I thought I had lost my keys. I stormed off and did not say goodby or tell him why I was leaving (which was not normal) I wonder if he thought I was mad at him. If I would have been in a better mood that day if it would have made any difference. If I would have stayed later ( he hung himself a few hours later in my shop) if I could have talked to him. If I simply would have been there when he got the call I know I could have saved his life. But I wasn't

So yeah, I get it. We want to make sense of things and put cause and reason where there is none. We are emotional beings and we let those emotions cloud our judgment.

You knew this guy. You obviously think he was a good guy and did not deserve to die. He probably didn't, However he probably should not have assaulted a guy with a badge and a gun either and it had very predictable repercussions.

 

[Oregonhunter5]

No Offense Oregonhunter but my take on this whole thing is it sheds light on some of those crazy lawsuits. Like the one currently going on by all the Sandy Hook parents. They are suing people who ultimately had nothing to do with why there children are dead. They are dead because a mad man wanted them dead. There is no meaning or blame to be had because the crazy person is dead as well as the person who raised him. But blame must be laid because that madman took everything from them. Someone has to pay for this evil that has been done against them. So they sue the person who made the gun, the person who sold the gun, The business where the gun was sold. None of these people are responsible. None of them did anything wrong or could have prevented this tragedy but there is no one else they can blame and it has to be someone's fault. I think when you suffer those kinds of loss it is normal to feel wronged. You get the "If Only's" Which can go on for ever. The more the person meant to you the crazier those If Only's can get.

I think your relationship with this guy is effecting how you feel about this. Your logic is unaffected. You still see that this guy started assaulting a cop. You know that the cop had every right to respond. At some level you know that no one is responsible for this but the guy swinging the shovel. BUT because there is a bit of emotion involved your mind starts trying to find blame that does not lay with your friend. It starts that If Only game.

Trust me, I have played this game. My oldest son hung himself at 19 because he was distraught over a girl. A girl who he intended to marry who met another guy away at collage. At 19 you simply dont have enough life experience to know that that world ending hurt you feel is temporary. But he was alone, had other things going on in his life and in a moment made a irrevocable choice. I know it was impulsive. He had plans for the next day, He had just bought grocery's. He had told people he was going to meet them the next morning. He worked for me at the time. I was upset the last time I saw him. Mad because I thought I had lost my keys. I stormed off and did not say goodby or tell him why I was leaving (which was not normal) I wonder if he thought I was mad at him. If I would have been in a better mood that day if it would have made any difference. If I would have stayed later ( he hung himself a few hours later in my shop) if I could have talked to him. If I simply would have been there when he got the call I know I could have saved his life. But I wasn't

So yeah, I get it. We want to make sense of things and put cause and reason where there is none. We are emotional beings and we let those emotions cloud our judgment.

You knew this guy. You obviously think he was a good guy and did not deserve to die. He probably didn't, However he probably should not have assaulted a guy with a badge and a gun either and it had very predictable repercussions.

Your right.
And I'm very sorry for your loss...

 

[etrain16]

I can understand why you'd be upset. But I've seen folks really change in the years since high school. 2 have committed suicide - people I thought would never have done it. People can and do change, for a variety of reasons. Considering how fast he went from calm to attacking an officer makes me believe something wasn't right upstairs.

As for how the officer responded, he was attacked, the guy had a weapon (the shovel) and could have killed him, I think he took appropriate action. It's sad, but it would have ended much differently if the guy had stayed calm and not attacked the officer. I don't think it's fair to decry the officer for defending himself against a man who, as far as he knew, was going to try and kill him. It's sad it had to go down that way.

 

[ZigZagZeke]

When you bring a snow shovel to a gunfight the outcome is predictable. Once the situation broke down the officer had no choice. However, the officer might have defused the situation if he had exhibited a less antagonistic attitude. His approach was curt and hostile from the beginning. He might have recognized that this individual was in a precarious mental situation and simply toned it down, rather than using a belligerent tone, and escalating the pressure.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Sorry you lost your friend, Hunter5! I don't see where anybody won here. A tragedy all around!

 

[Oregonhunter5]

Thanks.
I guess I was taking a risk when I put him in a headlock back in the day. I hope I didn't cause him to be a little off.
I was always the stocky football/wrestler. I was loveing though.