National The First Before The Second

[Caveman Jim]

FNG's…

 

[Mikej]

FNG's…

Been fishin' lately Jim?

 

[Caveman Jim]

It's not a "British hierarchy" problem - it's a human problem. Ergo, "enough" will never be "enough" (at least, not long term) - it's a feature, not a bug, of who we are.

It's what had already happened in America 200+ years ago, they are making a comeback. It is what it is.

 

[Caveman Jim]

Been fishin' lately Jim?

No… Grumpy I guess.

 

[Longwalkhome]

It's not a "British hierarchy" problem - it's a human problem. Ergo, "enough" will never be "enough" (at least, not long term) - it's a feature, not a bug, of who we are.

Just opinion, it's not who we are but how the elite control the population. We become what we are allowed to in the station of life the elite choose for us. Now the elite even dicide through a ministry of truth what we can think.

 

[Longwalkhome]

No… Grumpy I guess.

I am part of the crowd with a pretty good grouch on too. Being old I can see the changes clearly and it's sickens me.

 

[Paolung]

It's what had already happened in America 200+ years ago, they are making a comeback. It is what it is.

You're not wrong I'm just saying it's a problem a lot older than that - it's something we humans will never fully overcome IMO.

We should welcome mass extinction. It's an inevitability anyhow. I give the human race at best another 500 years. If it isn't nuclear war it'll be some other thing. Didn't you hear all the building blocks of humanity were found in just one meteorite. We're not so special anymore. Just a product of chance.

Yikes. That's a pretty cynical view.

Just opinion, it's not who we are but how the elite control the population. We become what we are allowed to in the station of life the elite choose for us. Now the elite even dicide through a ministry of truth what we can think.

My point is that there will always be elites and hierarchies - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's how the world works, and has some good aspects to it. But there's a dark side to those things, and it's becoming more manifest lately as many have pointed out.

That's what I mean by "it's part of us" as humans - I don't think that particular problem (the dark side of hierarchies and political machinations) will ever be completely solved. It's something we have to learn to live with and correct for when the bad outweighs the good (i.e. the hierarchies get corrupted, which they tend to do over time)

 

[Mikej]

No… Grumpy I guess.

Believe me. These last two plus years have warped me. The current goings on are a daily battle to deal with. You probably do it already, but that time at the bench, with whatever, or nothing, you like to listen too in the background is so sweet a time. And then shooting 'em off? And them hitting the target in small groups! PURE JOY! Just so ya' know your not alone.

I'm not a religious guy. Superstitious maybe. but as someone else mentioned here in the last couple days....
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

We ain't gettin' any younger, I keep telling myself. Go out and dig in the dirt. Always helps me. I'll wait for the fishin' story.

 

[Rkangel]

I am part of the crowd with a pretty good grouch on too. Being old I can see the changes clearly and it's sickens me.

They say youth is wasted on the young.
Many of us older grouchy types are coming to the end of the rope as they take more and more away from us. And as the saying goes, "Only a fool would underestimate a man with nothing left to lose."

 

[Caveman Jim]

Believe me. These last two plus years have warped me. The current goings on are a daily battle to deal with. You probably do it already, but that time at the bench, with whatever, or nothing, you like to listen too in the background is so sweet a time. And then shooting 'em off? And them hitting the target in small groups! PURE JOY! Just so ya' know your not alone.

I'm not a religious guy. Superstitious maybe. but as someone else mentioned here in the last couple days....
Lord, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, courage to change the things I can, and wisdom to know the difference.

We ain't gettin' any younger, I keep telling myself. Go out and dig in the dirt. Always helps me. I'll wait for the fishin' story.

Right you are and thanks brother, love your optimism greatly.
Fishing it is.

 

[Paolung]

It's a bleak world world we live in. I don't disagree with the general sentiment that there is a ruling elite that keeps the working class down. Whether we do something about that is another question. Choose your online forum and there's a million people all complaining about the same problem, but are divided by other issues bolstered by those elite. So what are we doing? Just talking? If that's it what's the point?

Okay, so what would you propose to do about the issue? This is a problem of hierarchies and their tendency toward corruption over time. It's as old as humanity itself (and actually a reflection of nature - we humans just happen to be able to recognize and muse about it).

Many solutions have been tried. Most have failed, and some have failed miserably. Much of the time, there are unforeseen consequences of any attempts to meddle; with some being catastrophically so.

These aren't easy problems to solve, and some may very well be effectively unsolvable - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant and at least attempt to correct when things get too far out of balance.

Related vid

 

[Longwalkhome]

You're not wrong I'm just saying it's a problem a lot older than that - it's something we humans will never fully overcome IMO.


Yikes. That's a pretty cynical view.


My point is that there will always be elites and hierarchies - and that's not necessarily a bad thing. It's how the world works, and has some good aspects to it. But there's a dark side to those things, and it's becoming more manifest lately as many have pointed out.

That's what I mean by "it's part of us" as humans - I don't think that particular problem (the dark side of hierarchies and political machinations) will ever be completely solved. It's something we have to learn to live with and correct for when the bad outweighs the good (i.e. the hierarchies get corrupted, which they tend to do over time)

Only chance the world had to keep the elite in check was the great experiment America. Laws to keep the elite bounded from stealing rights was a very good idea but over time the elite managed to ignore the laws and do as the powerful always do, become corrupt. Power corrupts.

Founders gave us the tools to maintain our freedoms. Free speech was the leader of those tools and now the ministry of truth is taking free speech away. Next tool?

 

[Paolung]

Do? There's nothing to be done. We live in a world of billions of peoples made up of hundreds of thousands of religions and personal beliefs and nationalities and ideas. We're not important, we don't have power, we are on a fly space rock traveling through space. We should be enjoying the time we have instead of wasting it complaining about things we have no control over and will definitely not have any control over ever. Go hang w your kids or friends or anything else besides being mad on the internet. Hope is for those that don't see we're already dead.

I guess I don't see we're already dead, then, because I still have hope. It certainly beats the alternatives of utter despair, resignation, or nihilism.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Okay, so what would you propose to do about the issue? This is a problem of hierarchies and their tendency toward corruption over time. It's as old as humanity itself (and actually a reflection of nature - we humans just happen to be able to recognize and muse about it).

Many solutions have been tried. Most have failed, and some have failed miserably. Much of the time, there are unforeseen consequences of any attempts to meddle; with some being catastrophically so.

These aren't easy problems to solve, and some may very well be effectively unsolvable - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be vigilant and at least attempt to correct when things get too far out of balance.

Related vid

Jordan is extremely intelligent but is an elitist himself in my opinion. I believe what he misses is we really need laws governing the elite with severe penalties for being corrupt. It's not laws for the masses that's the problem but lack of laws on the elite in governing.

Before voting got corrupted we could remove the elite from legislation power but now that elections are stolen we can't get rid of the corrupt. They want to silence us with a ministry of truth.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I guess I don't see we're already dead, then, because I still have hope. It certainly beats the alternatives of utter despair, resignation, or nihilism.

Good luck then and have a great day.

 

[Rkangel]

"Eat, Drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die." Because there is no other hope or purpose to life other than our own self-indulgences.

Epicureanism and nihilism are strange yet common bedfellows.

 

[Paolung]

All that hope and expectation is a luxury to be thankful for. Someone somewhere just exploded because some bombs they had nothing to do with exploded near their home. Or some other tragedy. The individual concept of importance doesn't take into account generally the reality we're already dead at a yet to be determined time

Sure, we'll all die someday. And it might be a horrible death, and it might be before our time (in the sense that we didn't realize even a fraction of our potential, etc.)… but dwelling on those unpleasant truths doesn't seem to motivate people to do the things that need to be done to solve the problems that can be solved, and improve what can be improved.

Who the he11 gets inspired by "it's all crap, we're all gonna die anyhow…"

What person ever produced something of lasting value to the world with that kind of mindset?

Contrast this with people who "have something to live for" - ie, hope.

Which one do you think is best equipped to solve the problems that can be solved, or improve that which can be improved?

Which will best be able to survive and possibly thrive when the SHTF?

We already know the answer - hope and determination are two of the most important factors in deciding those outcomes.

Sure, maybe you get blown up anyhow. But one of those mindsets gives you a much better fighting chance than the other, which says that more or less, "what's the point? It's all going to crap anyhow…"

I'll take hope over that any day.

 

[Rkangel]

"When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I gave up childish ways." - Paul

People have the choice to read threads or not. People have the choice to learn or not. People have the choice to speak or not. People have the choice to ignore or not. I am now going to exercise the latter.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Hope is waiting for someone else to do something because folks just won't do it themselves. Hope is why we are in the mess we are in. The hopeless? Maybe they are realist moving on with what ever life truly offers.

It's cynical I am.

 

[titsonritz]

Old men sending young to die for their personal issues is a tale as old as time. Wonder when the young will realize it's a scam.

History is full of old men getting it done.
https://www.founderoftheday.com/founder-of-the-day/samuel-whittemore
https://www.warhistoryonline.com/american-civil-war/jack-ninson-civil-war-sniper-hell.html