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The Army getting the Lead Out

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by DMax, Jul 25, 2013.

  1. DMax

    DMax Yamhill Well-Known Member

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  2. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    Not long ago, the Navy fueled up a very large ship or so (I don't know how many ships/barrels etc.) with biodiesel at the cost of.. I don't know, 100 times the cost of regular diesel. Go, military!
     
  3. duane black

    duane black Washington Well-Known Member

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    I thought I was reading the Onion. Whisky, Tango, Foxtrot.

    0_o
     
  4. Mountainman

    Mountainman SW Orygun Member

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    This environmental BS is getting totally out of control. Whats next, going back to the old battlefields and cleaning up the lead bullets.
     
  5. Provincial

    Provincial Near Salem, OR Well-Known Member

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    ^^^ This ^^^ :(:(:(
     
  6. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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  7. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    They've been buying frangible ammunition from various manufacturers for quite a few years. That effort has always been about eliminating lead. About 15 years ago or so, there was a major effort to clean up the lead at the Ft Leonard Wood ranges. This effort isn't completely new. Several ceramics companies have been issued some pretty lucrative contracts.
     
  8. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Hell,
    I'll go for some tungsten cored ammo any day. That's not lead .
    ohh yeah, were not supposed to have AP :-/
    What next, nerf bullets................
    What will they have.......pink tips....
    Unreal !
     
  9. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious what components do we mix together to get lead?
    obviously It doesn't come the ground.
    also where are the lead manufacturing plants I would like to visit one to see how lead is made?

    otherwise why are we worried about putting lead back in the ground if it is formed naturally?
     
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    VERY large concentrations (We're talking many tons) of lead actually DO pose some non-trivial risks of water contamination. I can imagine something like an army firing range that gets thousands of guys a year each putting a few hundred rounds down range getting to be a problem after...about 30 years or so.

    Short of that, the whole lead-insanity is backed by the same kinds of science that showed second-hand smoke killing 500,000 Americans every year.

    Take the data, massage it carefully, claim causation where there is none, and count every adverse case as attributable SOLELY to the "evil thing" you're trying to make look bad.

    The hysteria over toxic contamination has gone from rational concern to plain ole damn foolishness. Even if exposure to something increased you chances of (insert dread ailment) by 20 times (And most of the stuff they're going nuts over these days does nothing like that), if you started out with 1 in 500,000 odds, your chances of said adverse affect is still...you get the point.

    I consider myself an environmentalist. As do most sportsmen I know. But the enviro-lobby has gone so far off the deep-end for so lonf, that at this point they must be assumed to be lying until proven otherwise.
     
  11. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    Generally the problem with lead ammunition use and the military is how much of it they use, and the fact that they don't shoot in lead mines. High grade lead ore is galena (PbS) which is not water soluble, but if you take refined lead (Pb) expose it to oxygen (PbO) and then expose it to carbon dioxide (PbCO3) which is water soluble. Granted, this is a very slow process but it does accumulate over time.

    I think one of the things that gets lost in this conversation is that Copper is also considered a toxic heavy metal, however it's readily produced oxides and carbonates have very low bio-availability compared to lead. A material that is available in excess that has also been shown to make very good bullets in the past is steel, and last I checked the earth is like 80% by weight iron, it's also largely non-toxic (yes you can have excesses, but this is usually the result of a genetic problem) it's cheap, ~50c/lb whereas copper is ~3.50/lb

    Lead and copper make very good bullet materials for plastic expanding materials, however the military by convention does not want these properties, which means steel would be a much better material overall, the difficulty comes in manufacturing.
     
  12. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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  13. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    Funny, you never hear a word about the biggest polluter of all.
    Ma Nature.
    The naturally occurring mercury that constantly flushes down out of the cascade range into the rivers.
    Guess they have not figured out how to fine and ban her yet.
    The lead issue is pure bullcrap.
     
  14. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    I was surprised to learn that the reason for the size limit as well as quantity limit of German Browns in East Lake was due to the naturally occurring mercury in the lake. Since the volcano still has warm vents and there is no natural outlet, the mercury concentrates in the water and wildlife.

    I've also heard that methane from large animal flatulence contributes more to the carbon in the atmosphere than any man made source. I'm sure there can be quite a few comments involving politicians coming from that little nugget of information. :laugh:
     
  15. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    The flatulence from large animals is pale in size Compared to the politicians.
     
  16. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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  17. Certaindeaf

    Certaindeaf SE Portland Well-Known Member

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    All the best evil scientists/engineers are from Belgium.. probably.
    Long live FN!
     
  18. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    :D:D:D yep were all going to die from cow and politician farts.
    But cows only have it coming out one end.
     
    oknow and (deleted member) like this.
  19. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    So, lead is bad but depleted uranium tank rounds are OK? Is that correct?
     
  20. U201491

    U201491 Well-Known Member

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    You mirrored my thoughts :)