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What will be the difference?


  • Total voters
    15
  • Poll closed .
At the ear or off to the side of the business end? How many baffles?

Good question! As photographed above. Within, oh, six inches. Enough that the air-blast didn't disturb a test tissue. (mostly unused ;) )

While I was at it, I recorded sound-levels (no after-marked suppression) of a few other airguns.
:s0035::s0061::s0015: More on that later.
 
Maybe one chambered in subsonic 9mm would be intriguing

Here's something that's been on my wish-list for about a year. I just can't see paying THAT much for it tho'. o_O
bond_bullpup_suppressed_D6A3723-660x523.jpg
 
As most springers with most pellets are subsonic, and most of the noise comes from the power plant, a suppressor on one is purely marketing hype, same as the claims of "1200 FPS!!!". Both are designed to suck people into buying based solely on some imagined cool factor, in the same way that most fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen rather than fish :rolleyes:. As someone stated, PCP's are a whole different critter, but it's worth noting that you only see suppressors on the cheap springers, never on the German Beeman/HW's or Air Arms rifles. Later.

Dave
 
...it's worth noting that you only see suppressors on the cheap springers, never on the German Beeman/HW's or Air Arms rifles.

I gotta ask Dave; I haven't done my homework, but perhaps you'll know the back-end work already. But don't those very brands include threaded gun options and some their own mufflers? Or are those very fine brands "fishing" us too? :s0087:

I still don't know what the results are. That's for later today. Old f@rt gotta sleep.

f
 
I gotta ask Dave; I haven't done my homework, but perhaps you'll know the back-end work already. But don't those very brands include threaded gun options and some their own mufflers? Or are those very fine brands "fishing" us too? :s0087:

I still don't know what the results are. That's for later today. Old f@rt gotta sleep.

f

Yes, they do, but only on their PCP's AFAIK. It's been a few years since I was heavily involved, so things might have changed a bit. The Beeman brand name has gotten polluted in recent years, old Doc Beeman used to import Weihrauch guns built to his specs and with the Beeman name on them. The legendary R-series guns were all just HW rifles with stocks that were more comfortable for American shooters. After the family sold the company name, the new owners slap the Beeman name on just about anything, most of it Chinese :rolleyes:. Not necessarily bad in itself, but Doc never had anything to do with the QB series of rifles, among others, and yet they now wear the Beeman name.

The Air Arms rifles were/are a step up from the Beeman/HW guns, I think they've dropped all but one or two springers, and I've never seen one with a silencer.

Keep in mind, this ONLY applies to springers. PCP's, and to a lesser extent, CO2 guns, can benefit from some sort of suppressor, and are frequently sold either already suppressed, or one is easily added. And yes, you CAN suppress your $30 Crosman, as the gas volume and heat are so low compared to firearms, a clamp on arrangement is quite doable, and some of them are quite effective. And as the addiction deepens, and you head down the rabbit hole of modding them for more power, gas volumes increase, and noise levels go up, making a suppressor even more beneficial, especially shooting indoors or in a small back yard.

My sole remaining PCP is a .25 cal. Benjamin Marauder, it has what's called a shrouded barrel, which is simply airgun speak for an integral suppressor. With everything in place, it's very quiet, about the same as a .22 rifle using the CCI Quiet ammo. Take the shroud and baffles off, and it sounds like a .22 pistol with HV ammo. Air guns are great fun, but that rabbit hole runs deep, my version of the hobby morphed into a machining hobby, because I got so caught up in tuning and modding them, even built a couple nearly from scratch. And I digress a lot, typical :oops:. Later.

Dave
 
As most springers with most pellets are subsonic, and most of the noise comes from the power plant, a suppressor on one is purely marketing hype, same as the claims of "1200 FPS!!!". Both are designed to suck people into buying based solely on some imagined cool factor, in the same way that most fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen rather than fish :rolleyes:. As someone stated, PCP's are a whole different critter, but it's worth noting that you only see suppressors on the cheap springers, never on the German Beeman/HW's or Air Arms rifles. Later.

Dave
I always wanted on of these Pro Sport's in Walnut, are you saying the built in moderator they use does nothing? Or is this one the exception? Apples and oranges?

I admit I always wondered if these were any quieter than anything else.
 
As most springers with most pellets are subsonic, and most of the noise comes from the power plant, a suppressor on one is purely marketing hype, same as the claims of "1200 FPS!!!". Both are designed to suck people into buying based solely on some imagined cool factor, in the same way that most fishing lures are designed to catch fishermen rather than fish :rolleyes:. As someone stated, PCP's are a whole different critter, but it's worth noting that you only see suppressors on the cheap springers, never on the German Beeman/HW's or Air Arms rifles. Later.

Dave
Right. Sound deadening devices on a springer are a waste of time and money (or a marketing gimmick as said above). TKO won't even sell u a lead dust collector if u tell him u have a springer. A TKO on a CO2 or PCP is a whole different deal. They are whisper quiet. But a long barrel bolt action 22lr with subsonic rounds and a suppressor can be just as quiet. For a reference point, both are equivalent to the sound of dropping a pen onto a wood floor from 3 feet.
 
I always wanted on of these Pro Sport's in Walnut, are you saying the built in moderator they use does nothing? Or is this one the exception? Apples and oranges?

I admit I always wondered if these were any quieter than anything else.

The only AA springer I ever owned was a TX 200, and I didn't keep it that long. It didn't have a silencer, nor was it threaded for one. That said, the power plant in those things is incredibly smooth, so IF a silencer was going to be of any use on a springer, that would be the one. I still have doubts that it would make an appreciable difference, but I could be wrong, it's been know to happen a time or two o_O.

There is another factor where springers are concerned, and that's barrel length. Due to the tiny volume of air that's compressed by the piston, the optimal barrel length is a LOT shorter than most folks realize, it's somewhere around the 12" mark, any longer and you actually start losing velocity, assuming a quality barrel and pellets sized to be a good match to the bore. The problem with a short barrel is sight radius, at least if you're using iron sights. The match springers back in the day got around this by installing a "bloop tube", essentially just a long sleeve that fit over the short barrel and extended the sight radius. I actually did this on one of my rifles, and it did make a difference, even with a scope. Velocity was a little higher than with the longer barrel, but even better, the SD numbers increased considerably, and I cut that barrel back to 13" IIRC. Fun project, and one of my better cheap springer projects :cool:. Later.

Dave
 
The only AA springer I ever owned was a TX 200, and I didn't keep it that long. It didn't have a silencer, nor was it threaded for one. That said, the power plant in those things is incredibly smooth, so IF a silencer was going to be of any use on a springer, that would be the one. I still have doubts that it would make an appreciable difference, but I could be wrong, it's been know to happen a time or two o_O.

There is another factor where springers are concerned, and that's barrel length. Due to the tiny volume of air that's compressed by the piston, the optimal barrel length is a LOT shorter than most folks realize, it's somewhere around the 12" mark, any longer and you actually start losing velocity, assuming a quality barrel and pellets sized to be a good match to the bore. The problem with a short barrel is sight radius, at least if you're using iron sights. The match springers back in the day got around this by installing a "bloop tube", essentially just a long sleeve that fit over the short barrel and extended the sight radius. I actually did this on one of my rifles, and it did make a difference, even with a scope. Velocity was a little higher than with the longer barrel, but even better, the SD numbers increased considerably, and I cut that barrel back to 13" IIRC. Fun project, and one of my better cheap springer projects :cool:. Later.

Dave
FYI I put a "lead dust collector" (I don't use the S word for airguns ha ha) on a springer one time just on a lark and it did absolutely nothing. But it was a Beeman high powered springer and had a fairly violent spring action which was the dominant sound heard (and felt ha ha) by the gun.

An also related FYI is one time I had a custom made PCP Benjamin discovery that was super modified for high power. It was .25 caliber as I recall (maybe .20 can't remember). The custom gunmaker made the lead dust collector (LDC) himself and actually got atf approval to do so (Very long process he said) as it was non-removable. I wanted the gun due to the lothar Walther choked barrel and didn't really care about the LDC on it. That LDC had as I recall maybe 2 baffles only and was all metal. Imo it did about zero to lessen the noise. However that same gun with a well designed LDC (TKO brand) was noticeably quieter but not as quiet as a non-souped up disco with a TKO (which is really whisper quiet).
 
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The only AA springer I ever owned was a TX 200, and I didn't keep it that long. It didn't have a silencer, nor was it threaded for one. That said, the power plant in those things is incredibly smooth, so IF a silencer was going to be of any use on a springer, that would be the one. I still have doubts that it would make an appreciable difference, but I could be wrong, it's been know to happen a time or two o_O.

There is another factor where springers are concerned, and that's barrel length. Due to the tiny volume of air that's compressed by the piston, the optimal barrel length is a LOT shorter than most folks realize, it's somewhere around the 12" mark, any longer and you actually start losing velocity, assuming a quality barrel and pellets sized to be a good match to the bore. The problem with a short barrel is sight radius, at least if you're using iron sights. The match springers back in the day got around this by installing a "bloop tube", essentially just a long sleeve that fit over the short barrel and extended the sight radius. I actually did this on one of my rifles, and it did make a difference, even with a scope. Velocity was a little higher than with the longer barrel, but even better, the SD numbers increased considerably, and I cut that barrel back to 13" IIRC. Fun project, and one of my better cheap springer projects :cool:. Later.

Dave
Re barrel length I don't have any testing info at all but I would guess it depends on how much gas you are sending down the barrel with each shot? One example I can share is that I had a Co2 powered crosman kt2300 one time with an 11" lothar Walther barrel. I souped it up for max power. The amount of gas going out the barrel on that thing was pretty ridiculous (and loud). A big cloud of gas with each shot. I put the largest size TKo on it and that quieted it down a ton (almost whisper quiet but not quite). With the right pellet, bench rested that gun would put pellets in the same hole time after time at 20 yards. I guess that's why they call them Olympic grade barrels ha ha.

One big key for me is not to be overpowered. Overpowered pellets are unstable imo unless u are using an extremely heavy pellet. And if it gets near the sound barrier velocities u are really in trouble. Worst case is if the pellet crosses the sound barrier twice. 2 huge destabilizing forces acting on a sensitive pellet = no good for me. Those .45-.50 caliber 400ish grain pellet hunting guns might be different though I don't know.

Re CO2 another factor some might not be aware of is temp. If you shoot fast things get cold pretty fast and it will change the point of impact. CO2 like consistent temps. In the kt2300 example above I let the gun rest in between shots to get the same temps.
 
Re barrel length I don't have any testing info at all but I would guess it depends on how much gas you are sending down the barrel with each shot? One example I can share is that I had a Co2 powered crosman kt2300 one time with an 11" lothar Walther barrel. I souped it up for max power. The amount of gas going out the barrel on that thing was pretty ridiculous (and loud). A big cloud of gas with each shot. I put the largest size TKo on it and that quieted it down a ton (almost whisper quiet but not quite). With the right pellet, bench rested that gun would put pellets in the same hole time after time at 20 yards. I guess that's why they call them Olympic grade barrels ha ha.

One big key for me is not to be overpowered. Overpowered pellets are unstable imo unless u are using an extremely heavy pellet. And if it gets near the sound barrier velocities u are really in trouble. Worst case is if the pellet crosses the sound barrier twice. 2 huge destabilizing forces acting on a sensitive pellet = no good for me. Those .45-.50 caliber 400ish grain pellet hunting guns might be different though I don't know.

Re CO2 another factor some might not be aware of is temp. If you shoot fast things get cold pretty fast and it will change the point of impact. CO2 like consistent temps. In the kt2300 example above I let the gun rest in between shots to get the same temps.

Temperature sensitivity was one of the big reasons I avoided CO2 guns for so long, it's either too hot or too cold here for consistency. I did get involved with the QB rifles for awhile, but that culminated in turning one into a PCP. Played around with power modding the valves with both air and CO2, but I just preferred the higher powered PCP's. Most powerful I ever owned was one of the Korean lever actions, 707 (?) in .25. At full power with a heavy pellet, it was pushing 100 FT/LBS, but sucked air like crazy. My Marauder is quite happy at around the 40 FT/LB mark, gets good shot count and is a laser out to 50 yards with JSB Kings. Haven't done much with the air guns in the last 4 years or so, they got pushed aside for a renewed interest in firearms. But I keep the Mrod for garden pest duty, it's quite effective on the occasional garden raiding marmot. And I still have a couple of springers around, just because. Both need tuning and trigger work, just not a real high priority. Later.

Dave
 
Temperature sensitivity was one of the big reasons I avoided CO2 guns for so long, it's either too hot or too cold here for consistency. I did get involved with the QB rifles for awhile, but that culminated in turning one into a PCP. Played around with power modding the valves with both air and CO2, but I just preferred the higher powered PCP's. Most powerful I ever owned was one of the Korean lever actions, 707 (?) in .25. At full power with a heavy pellet, it was pushing 100 FT/LBS, but sucked air like crazy. My Marauder is quite happy at around the 40 FT/LB mark, gets good shot count and is a laser out to 50 yards with JSB Kings. Haven't done much with the air guns in the last 4 years or so, they got pushed aside for a renewed interest in firearms. But I keep the Mrod for garden pest duty, it's quite effective on the occasional garden raiding marmot. And I still have a couple of springers around, just because. Both need tuning and trigger work, just not a real high priority. Later.

Dave
That's good info on the jsb Kings. What is the weight of those? My pistol marauder (P-Rod) likes jsb exact jumbo heavy pellets. I think they are 18 or 21 grain but can't recall (.22 caliber). The "P-Rod" also loves h and n field target trophy copper plated pellets. I think they are about 15 grains but can't recall off the top of my head. Those copper plated ones are far and away the most accurate In that gun for some reason.

I've tried loads of pellets and most have a pretty poor grouping TBH. I've heard others say that h and n sniper light work well in the P-rod but definitely not in mine (I think they're probably too light). Have you ever tried predator poly mags in the marauder? They don't do well in the P-Rod but I used them in the .177 caliber crosman kt2300 co2 pistol and they were incredibly accurate as long as you select ones from the tin that have perfect skirts. For some reason many of the polymag skirts get deformed slightly but not as bad as the gamo crap copy of that predator poly mag pellet. This is the plastic tip version Of the predator poly mags not the metal tip version (metal tip has not worked at all for me in anything and the tips tend to fall out of the pellet right in the tin on some). I would love to hear what other pellets work for u in the marauder. Thanks!
 
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Hello readers, I'm back with the results. Changed link in OP. Sorry that took a minute, other things in life to triage. :s0039:
 
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