Spent cases won't fit back into the same rifle (Tikka T3X 300 WM)

[ddjchemist]

I am getting into reloading and learning a lot about it. I started a separate tread about it and many people replied to my tread and I highly appreciate all the help and advise from this wonderful firearm community (you are all my brothers and sisters in arm). In the process, I learned that ammo cases shot in one rifle should easily fit back in the same rifle without need for FL resizing (at least if those cases were shot for the first time). I shot only once about 100 cases of factory ammo (purchased from MidwayUS, so that ammo is 100% factory ammo) with my Tikka T3X 300 Win Mag. The same cases won't fit back into the rifle that I used to shoot them unless I perform FL resizing. If I place unsized case into the action, the bolt can't close and the case get slightly jammed in the chamber. The rifle is 2 months old (I purchased it brand new from Cabela's) and it shoots great, is very accurate and feeds and extracts cases smoothly. Has anyone else experienced something like this? Any advice would be very appreciated.

Cheers from Needle City,

Dan

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[Saladfarmer]

Sounds like the case is too long now. Did you measure the length of the case? They probably need to be trimmed back down to size. If you don't have a case trimmer, that would be the next thing to get

 

[oremike]

I'lll bet just in front of the case belt there is a slight bulge and that's what's causing the case to not feed until full length sized.

 

[ddjchemist]

I'lll bet just in front of the case belt there is a slight bulge and that's what's causing the case to not feed until full length sized.

That answer makes be feel better. I hope you are 100% correct. I am going to do some measurements to check.

 

[Lasers]

One of the best purchases I made for reloading were "go-no-go" or case check gauges. It's basically a cilinder made to chamber spec. Drop the case in, if it fits correctly, no need to resize, if it doesn't, then there is. I run ever reload through it before priming and again after seating the bullet

 

[drstrangelove]

Does your decap die have an expander ball to open the neck a bit to accept the new bullet? That might be what's going on. The neck doesn't get recompressed until bullet seating and neck crimping. Trying to chamber before this step will hang the brass up. The comment about the neck being too long is also valid. Try decapping without neck expansion, trimming neck, and if it still doesn't fit, the problem is the shoulders of the cartridge need to be bumped back each time the brass is reloaded. I ran into the same problem with trying to neck size the 6.5 prc. My solution was to quit neck sizing. Problem solved. I also anneal neck for 6 sec on a propane stove on every reload to keep neck brass pliable and easy to trim.

 

[edzz]

Are you feeding the fired case from the magazine or placing it in the chamber and then attempting to close the bolt on it?

 

[oremike]

That answer makes be feel better. I hope you are 100% correct. I am going to do some measurements to check.

An easy way to tell is after full length resizing it there a shiny ring right above the belt?

 

[ddjchemist]

I think I might had not expressed myself well. I am not trying to use cases without resizing to load them. I fully understand that one has to perform or FL sizing or neck sizing in order to reload. I was just for curiosity trying to insert unsized cases since shot cases would expend to perfectly fit the rifle used to shoot them (of course neck has to be resized to seat bullet). The FL dies has an extender ball and after resizing the cases fit well. Yes, I use case gauges (every copany likes to use different terms for them, but at the end of the day their purpose is to determine if the case has headspace within SAAMI specs) to check resized shells and they all pass that test. I will have to trim resized cases since they all exceed the maximum length of 300 WM of 2.620". Some suggested not to worry about the case OAL since what really matters is the length from bolt face to datum (I think that is a correct technical term) and the seating bullet distance (some call it jump distance) from rifling inlet (I can't recall exact technical term). After resizing my cases they have OAL 2.625-2.630in and they all pass gauge headspace test. I started another tread just related to my reloading and this one was just to focus on the rifle. My main question of this tread is it normal for a 300 WM rifle to expend cases such that they can't fit back without resizing. Any other bolt-action rifle that I have fits spent cases without any problem. Of course I won't reload any unsized case.

 

[drstrangelove]

If the chamber is at all asymmetric, it's not going back in unless rotated exactly in line with how it came out. I spect sumting wong.

 

[Koda]

It might depend on the quality of the brass, most factory loads dont use quality brass. Once fired factory brass in my bolt sometimes fits sometimes is tight to close the bolt... from the same box. The ones that are tight Ive had to resize the case headspace just enough to close easily.
On a different note, Ive read that leaving the case OAL too long is potentially dangerous, OAL is not the same as case headspace.

 

[oremike]

Ok, some cases drop right back into the chamber they were fired in and others don't. The ones that drop right in only need neck sizing and trimming. The ones that don't drop right in need full length sizing that sets the case back to factory fitment and checked for length. After you shoot the neck sized only ones a few times you will most likely need to full length size them any way because they won't just drop right in anymore. Heat, pressure, and times fired are all factors in the brass moving. But there is no constant that I know of. One thing I know is that a 300 Win Mag generally shoots a heavier bullet faster than a 30-06 and the only way it can do that is to have more pressure behind it. How and where that pressure is generated can affect the was the brass flows. Case in point, if a fast powder is used to push a heavy bullet it might reach peak pressure before the bullet has left the case and cause a non drop in via a bulge problem.

 

[Steel Head]

I think I might had not expressed myself well. I am not trying to use cases without resizing to load them. I fully understand that one has to perform or FL sizing or neck sizing in order to reload. I was just for curiosity trying to insert unsized cases since shot cases would expend to perfectly fit the rifle used to shoot them (of course neck has to be resized to seat bullet). The FL dies has an extender ball and after resizing the cases fit well. Yes, I use case gauges (every copany likes to use different terms for them, but at the end of the day their purpose is to determine if the case has headspace within SAAMI specs) to check resized shells and they all pass that test. I will have to trim resized cases since they all exceed the maximum length of 300 WM of 2.620". Some suggested not to worry about the case OAL since what really matters is the length from bolt face to datum (I think that is a correct technical term) and the seating bullet distance (some call it jump distance) from rifling inlet (I can't recall exact technical term). After resizing my cases they have OAL 2.625-2.630in and they all pass gauge headspace test. I started another tread just related to my reloading and this one was just to focus on the rifle. My main question of this tread is it normal for a 300 WM rifle to expend cases such that they can't fit back without resizing. Any other bolt-action rifle that I have fits spent cases without any problem. Of course I won't reload any unsized case.

It's definitely not normal

you can mark the problem cases with marker snd see where the problem lies.

That answer makes be feel better. I hope you are 100% correct. I am going to do some measurements to check.

There's actually a company that makes a dedicated collet die just to solve this problem, it's not super common but it does happen.

 

[Pops1911]

OK I'm a Geezer but ... I always full length resize all of my expended brass during the reloading process. Never have reloaded/shot brass that has not been resized first. No problems at all. That has been my experience.

 

[ddjchemist]

Thats what I am doing and it seems to work great so far. I just show my firs 3 reloads (49.5gr IMR-4064 powder w/ Sierra 168gr BPHP bullets) and was able to group them under 1 inch @ 100 yards. Good time starts now. I will now load 50 some more cases using the exact same charge and keep varying bullet seating. Time to go start loading the cases.

 

[DirectDrive]

I will now load 50 some more cases using the exact same charge and keep varying bullet seating.

I suppose that's one way to look at it, but you'd want to feel lucky with the chosen powder charge.
If you did a poll, most handloaders would work on ladder-stepping the powder charge first.
Find the accuracy node that way and then fine-tune the other aspects.

 

[oremike]

I'd try some H-4350 powder. What I look for in a powder is highest velocity, with the lowest pressure and closest to 100% case fill with out being a compressed load. In looking at the on-line Hodgdon data the H-4350 would met those criteria for me.

 

[EHJ]

I 'hand load' for a Tikka T3 in .308 with a simple Lee Loader - so I'm only necking.
Some things I recalled after reading this thread,

When I reuse a once run brass - and especially when using fresh brass - I find that I see the most case stretching of the brass after neck sizing. They seem to need more trimming after the first or second loading more than they do later. When I've fudged my preped case length and just went for oal is when I seemed to have the same problems as you.

Again - I'm just using a non-adjustable Lee Loader and have just relied on a single rifle's chamber for fire forming.

 

[Member 34319]

If anything is the neck and mouth causing the issues. I would bet sizing the neck and trimming the mouth to a proper OAL would allow for "fire formed" brass to foot back into the chamber. A comparator would probably be beneficial to ensure the headspace in the shoulder isn't getting too far out of whack. If the shoulder is bumping too far out of spec, you may want to have your rifle checked for proper headspace.

 

[ddjchemist]

I checked the rifle headspace with Go and No GO gauges that I borrower from a guy at our shooting range and the headspace seems fine.