SIG loses to CZ...

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by daved20319, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. daved20319

    daved20319
    Twisp, WA
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    Finally made it to the range yesterday for the big shoot-off between my Sig P220 and my CZ PCR. Also had my 97 BD along, and a friend joined me with his CZ 75B Omega. Bottom line, these are all excellent pistols, all are reliable and fun to shoot. But in my hands, the CZ's just shoot better, even the PCR was better in comparison to the Sig, and as the battle was really which of these two would be my EDC, that's what really matters. Doesn't hurt that, even though the Sig and PCR are very close in size and weight, the CZ is also easier to carry and conceal. Not a fair comparison to the 97 BD, I've got some time and money invested in that pistol, it really is a treat to shoot, and the accuracy is pretty amazing, too. Really about the only category the Sig won on was sight regulation, they were dead on at pretty much any range, and we were playing around at 50 and 100 yards with a 12" steel gong. The CZ's typically shot to the right, and that got worse as the range increased. My shooting buddy got the same results, so I don't think it's the shooter, guess it looks like I'll need to invest in a sight pusher soon.

    All in all, it was a fun day, but it was also a little sad, as I really wanted to love the Sig. But I don't, and there are other guns I want more, so for anyone interested, the Sig is already posted for trade. Later.

    Dave
     
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  2. surevaliance

    surevaliance
    Auburn WA
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    Honestly, I have never understood all that excitement about Sig products.
     
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  3. oli700

    oli700
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    No surprise. Get your hands on a SP01 , don’t tell anyone. Let them all talk about how cool their roll marks are
     
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  4. 41mag

    41mag
    sunny Orygun
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    Always nice to gain respect for good performance satisfying the needs of the owner; thanks for the report.

    I've seen glowing reports in this forum, for marques that simply do not work for ~me~ .....must be one reason there's choice in the market place;)
     
  5. PNWguy

    PNWguy
    Palouse, WA
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    My dad and brother are cops and love their Sigs. I shot them and didn't get it. The Sigs just feel heavy and clunky and fat compared to my M&Ps and Glocks.

    My brother's agency recently switched to Glocks from Sig and he was all upset. He bought back his Sig P229 in .357 Sig from the distributor.

    Then he went to qualify with his new Gen 5 Glock and shot his highest score ever. Now he loves his Glock...

    But, it's a personal preference thing.

    I've seen all of the love and adoration of the CZ platform and when my brother-in-law bought a new P10c, I was eager to shoot it side by side with my G19 Gen 5.

    The CZ felt good in hand, but the texture was very aggressive, the trigger wasn't as good, and both of us shot the G19 more accurately. Plus it was noticeably larger than the G19. I was disappointed. But, for the sub-$400 price he paid, it was OK.
     
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  6. gunfreak

    gunfreak
    Boise
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    A couple months ago I picked up a Sig M-17, recently traded it for a Ruger AR-556. The Sig was blocky feeling like a Glock. I also much prefer my M&P and, damn the Ruger AR is a fantastic gun. I have the Magpul version. No problem hitting steel plates at 100 with iron sights, very well thought out and built as well.
     
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  7. 41mag

    41mag
    sunny Orygun
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    I've been at the range several days in a row lately. Today was some fabulous S&W revolvers. After spectacular falling plate action, I can't understand why it's so hard for me to get similar results for the rounds fired, from the bottom stuffers, regardless of make.
     
  8. MannyGlocks

    MannyGlocks
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    Sigs are good, like Glocks better, love the look of 1911's, but haven't shot one that was dead nuts reliable.

    Heck, even my cheapie S&W SD9VE is that even if the trigger isn't what most like, though I do. Long trigger pulls when there's no safety give me a good feeling when I wear it doing yard work.

    I once owned a Colt Commander and it was gorgeous, but was a jamomatic. I had it looked at and tweaked by a competent gun smith. It still wasn't reliable...
     
  9. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel
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    I think it's a photo finish, but the edge does go to CZ.
    * Maybe inherently more accurate with the slide in rails design and lower bore axis. But the penalty is little real estate for racking.
    * A little better ergonomics
    * Much better price
    * Generally a little better capacity for same size. Sig never got on the max capacity wagon. Never understood how Glock, CZ, etc. can fit an extra round or three in the same size mags as Sig and HK...

    Sig takedown, however, is much better for a few reasons.
    * Captive takedown lever (can't lose it)
    * Far simplier takedown
    * Larger slide with more real estate for racking slide, could be a life safer in an urgent emergency.
     
  10. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts
    Warshington
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    Don’t know what it is, but I’ve never shot anything more accurately than a P226 with the P220 close behind. I run striker fired guns better, but in terms of raw accuracy, the Sigs have always been my favorite.
     
  11. 41mag

    41mag
    sunny Orygun
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    amazing the 12-cap P365 magazine in a package that size. For my use that model continues to perform well even given the hordes of unhappy owners;

    re: 308: nice video, thanks. I can expect that same pleasing hit ratio with my own 229, while any given Glock of the dozen I've owned, would simply frustrate without any similar accuracy. Me & whatever-Glock-model simply don't produce 'target accuracy'. It's beginning to look like CZ is going to disappoint as well despite the enthusiasm of members who lured me into buying one.

    Such comparisons are what my old buddies at the shop called 'bench racing' where Friday night they'd all be tuning & re-checking their flat track motors. Whatever happened Saturday or Sunday at the actual race, Monday morning they'd be back at the labored & intricate review of what/why/how things went a little different than they predicted.

    I've compared the CZ P10c here before, with the PPX Walther.
    The objective differences are minor, the subjective add up to better performance for *me* while YMMV.

    OPs Sig/CZ comparison has considerably more objective differences between them. I for one get better accuracy out of any given Sig. Better yet from a small sample of 1911s. And overall, give me a decent revolver if I want my best groups.

    o_O
     
  12. daved20319

    daved20319
    Twisp, WA
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    Interesting comments, guys, and like someone said, it's nice that we have the variety of guns available, as we all have different likes and dislikes. Did want to make one thing clear. This post was in no way meant to be a slam at Sigs, or even a testimonial for CZ, it's just MY experience with a small sample of pistols. Their reputation may be a bit overblown, but they're still pretty awesome pistols. Just not in my hands. From a mechanical reliability standpoint, I don't know that you could beat it, but in my hands, I just can't rely on being able to hit with it. And if you're going to own a gun, that really has to be first priority. That said, someone is going to end up with an awfully nice pistol, when all is said and done. Later.

    Dave
     
  13. leadcounsel

    leadcounsel
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    Well, CZs and Sigs are chosen by the elite professionals in the world. Lots of militaries and special operations units have used them for a very very long time. Let's not forget that Sig only lost out to Beretta based on price in the 1980s trials, and that in spite of that the P226 was chosen by the US Navy SEALS over all other guns for decades until replaced by Glock 19 (based on weight/cost). I would not discount either brand (or HK, Glock, Ruger, FN, Walther, Springfield, SW) based on a small sample size under-performance.
     
  14. The Heretic

    The Heretic
    Orygun (near PDX)
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    Ergonomics are a very personal thing - features are not.

    DA/SA triggers are better than striker fired triggers - I've not heard anyone claim differently (although I am sure someone here may try) - striker fired triggers, no matter how good, are just "squishy", they feel like they are never going to break.

    Most striker fired guns do not have the restrike capability of DA/SA guns. Failure to fire is easily and more quickly remedied 80+% of the time by pulling the trigger again - usually due to a recalcitrant primer.

    I also like the fact that I can safely carry with the hammer down on a round in the chamber while having the ability to fire immediately - something that striker fired guns can do, except that it is easier to inadvertently pull the trigger (or somehow have it pulled - e.g., get caught on something, like when reholstering) with a striker fired gun. Decocking is nice too - whereas a striker fired gun has no decocking (not with a round in the chamber).

    As for ergos, like I said, those are personal - so to each their own, but I prefer the ergos of the SIG classic P-series pistols over the squarish grips of the Glocks. I also like the fact that for the 226 and 229 I can get the Hogue rubber grips.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
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  15. 41mag

    41mag
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    I like that comment a lot.
     
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  16. MannyGlocks

    MannyGlocks
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    T.H.

    I have a Hogue Handall rubber grip mounted on my G19 thus I'm not certain what you meant - sounds like you think rubber grips can't be fitted on a Glock or do I totally misunderstand?

    Thanks!
     
  17. daved20319

    daved20319
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    You're talking about a sleeve vs. actual replaceable grip scales. Lots of aftermarket choices for pretty much any metal framed pistol, but as the grip is an integral part of the polymer frame, no so much variety. Later.

    Dave
     
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  18. MannyGlocks

    MannyGlocks
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    Thanks Dave!
     

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