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Sheepdog Mythology

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by FatherHolyHoly, Mar 27, 2009.

  1. FatherHolyHoly

    FatherHolyHoly MN Active Member

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    I'm tired of the perception that by carrying a gun you're somehow better than those who have made the choice not to. Carrying a gun does not make you a shepherd. It does not make you a better citizen, a better person or a hero. You're just a guy with a gun and until you do something worth mentioning, please refrain from imposing your self-gratifying metaphor on me.

    This elitist mentality that one is somehow better than the "sheep with no control" mystifies me. Plenty of sheep have stood up for what they believed in and made one h*ll of a bigger impact in this world than you or I will ever hope to achieve.

    [youtube]<object width="480" height="295"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/9-nXT8lSnPQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/9-nXT8lSnPQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="295"></embed></object>[/youtube]
    Pardon the subtitles.
     
  2. BUZO71

    BUZO71 Emerald Valley, Oregon New Member

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    I think your title is wrong. The truth is, its a sheepdog MENTALITY. Its not about carrying a gun. Its about the mindset that sheepdogs will be ready to protect the sheep if that time comes.

    For myself, I don't see myself as being better but ready. For me, part of that is carrying a firearm and being physically, mentally prepared to use it.

    A sheepdog can be anyone prepared to protect the sheep. And, by the way, the "sheep" are those that are not prepared, do not have control or take control, so this guy in the video could be seen as a sheepdog. He is willing, prepared mentally to take control to protect the sheep. Imagine if more had his willingness- they could have blocked that whole street!
     
  3. PlayboyPenguin

    PlayboyPenguin Pacific Northwest Well-Known Member 2016 Volunteer

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    I actually disagree with the "Sheepdog" mentality myself. Some people will always be sheepdogs regardless of whether they carry a gun or not, but I think putting on a gun and then seeing yourself as a defender of the innocent is not something people should get into the habit of doing. It is just not a safe mentality and leads to all kinds of issues.

    When you start seeing yourself as a defender of the innocent you risk allowing your mental state to be affected. You risk starting to see yourself as some sort of savior of mankind and you start taking on authority that does not belong to you.

    You also take a huge risk whenever you involve yourself in other people's business. It is not always clear who is the good guy and who i the bad guy. If you are on the street and a man is walking in front of you and suddenly another person runs up behind them and starts punching them do you defend the man being attacked. If you involve yourself and the attacker defends himself against you do you shoot him? What do you do then if you discover afterwards that the man he was hitting had just fled the scene where he had just raped his attackers 8 year old daughter?
     
  4. BUZO71

    BUZO71 Emerald Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Its not that you have to get involved, its that you have to be READY to get involved. Prepare for battle doesn't mean jump into it. Its a mindset. It has nothing to do with guns although gun may be a part of it.:thumbup:
     
  5. SheepDog223

    SheepDog223 Salem Well-Known Member

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    I think the analogy of sheepdog can go a long way if you view it in the same light as I do. I am a sheepdog. I do not go walking around town looking for people to shoot or defend. I do not feel that random people getting into fist fights is a serious threat to life, maiming, or rape. I do not know who is the bad guy or who is the good guy when I happen onto a scene and it's half over. I do know that at any point in time there may be a crazy who does not value human life who will start shooting people in a mall, school, or any other public building .

    Tell me you don't know who the bad guy is when your sitting in a coffee shop and a guy walks in with an sks and starts spraying lead. Tell me that the guy who walks into your church, shooting anyone in sight might be innocent. Tell me that when a crazy runs into a mall with an ak and your daughter is shopping while you're at work that you don't want some "good" guns in that building to drop the dirtbag asap. I am not a hero, nor will I ever be one, even if I happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time and do the right thing.

    In the catagory of personal defence, I am a Sheep Dog! But there are many areas where I'm the sheep. I pay a tax preparer to protect me from doing my taxes wrong. My government protects me from other countries and people groups with its military and diplomacy. I have a doctor who tries to keep me healthy. I have a wife who tries to keep me in line and safe. I would hire a lawyer if I was going to court. We all can be sheepdogs in our own enviroment and we all are sheep out of it. Defend those in need. We are all needed to be sheepdogs when the oportunity presents itself, because sheep are so dumb they will walk into a pond and drown.

    I am a SheepDog, and if you hear the call then join those who joined before me. You will not be a better person for it. Your name will be steped on. Your training will cost YOU money. The liability is yours. These are some of the costs for justice and freedom. I think it's worth the effort. -SheepDog.223-
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  6. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Nicely said...........
     
  7. Dutchy556

    Dutchy556 Bend, OR Member

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    +1


    I don't think those of us who carry and advocate the "Sheepdog mentality" are running around seeing ourselves as "saviors of mankind" (lol, really...?)... well, I know I'm not anyway... And I definitely am not walking around looking to intervene in a physical conflict with deadly physical force...

    I am not a better citizen, better person or hero on account of carrying, you're right. I just won't be a victim or watch other people be made victims and have a skillset and tools try and ensure this. I don't feel this makes me "better" than anyone, and I haven't really noticed anyone else implying that by carrying or what have you they are better than anyone around here...

    OP, as has been said, the sheepdog mentality is just that - a mentality, not the act of carrying. If you think it's about being arrogant and thinking you're better than people well then clearly you don't get it.
     
  8. FatherHolyHoly

    FatherHolyHoly MN Active Member

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    The title was a bit of a slam, Buz. Not to be taken seriously.

    SD223, I had to go back and remind myself of the differences between analogy and metaphor. Yes, there are people like you who aren't out there playing defenders of the universe. This post is referring to the people that feel the need to "play cop" simply due to the fact that they're packing. I agree with you that when viewed with regard to self defense, the analogy can be beneficial. On the flip side, it can be equally damaging when you add in other factors. For example, how many CHL newbies will hear the sheepdog analogy and assume a false sense of authority or duty? That's the sheepdog "mentality" that I'd prefer not to promote and to which this post was dedicated to.

    As for me, I'm a Lion. Thundercats, HoOO!
     
  9. NWMoss

    NWMoss Lost, permanently... Member

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    Question: What about those who act this way who are not packing?

    When are you and when are you not your neighbor's keeper?

    Is standing around doing nothing better than being proactive (without overacting)?



    I get your point... mainly being about those who developed belligerent attitudes just 'case they got a gun... but i raise an eyebrow that said attitude is associated with "SheepDog".

    I wonder where it acquired this negative connotation and if anybody else shares this view of the word.

    Hmmmm....
     
  10. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    See my take on this is I don't want sheepdogs taking my right to carry from me. I don't carry to be a defender of all that is right, I carry to defend all that is mine, and family. If you chose not to carry that's a OK with me.;)


    No offense to Sheepdog223 ;)
     
  11. ZombieAssassin

    ZombieAssassin Oregon Member

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    Snarf ... Snarf ... <couldn't resist>

    Both sides have points. The key is not to play "controller/cop/authority" at all moments in your life, real or virtual. Those that do can be rightfully considered to have some control and force issues. For those that carry and are willing to protect, even if it means your life ending, AND not looking for trouble, AND trying to decrease the intensity/violence in a situation, AND don't talk to friends/family as if they are hero material, these are the real sheepdogs. Modesty and humility are key -- if you lack either, you have a protective mindset for the wrong reasons.
     
  12. swoop

    swoop Milwaukie, Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that I am better because I carry, but I think smarter would be more like it. All you have to do is turn on the news or read a newspaper to know that we are living in a world of danger. I carry to protect myself and family, that's what dogs do. Once they are secure, I will do my best to protect the sheeple from the wolves, that's where the sheepdog comes in. You are going to find punks that abuse in any group Benny, but you shouldn't paint with such a wide brush.
     
  13. SheepDog223

    SheepDog223 Salem Well-Known Member

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    Last edited: Mar 27, 2009
  14. Ocanada

    Ocanada Way North Member

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    Wow,

    I have to thank all of you for your original replies to OFADAN's publishing of John Farnham's report. And for this link to your thoughts. You are all lucky to be able to have your differences and a forum to discuss them. I think any and all information is for education, and yes I know the net is full of B.S. war stories, so you have to be careful of your sources. Sorry for the slight thread drift.

    John and Dan,report the information they get for education of ALL not just for those who carry or don't. I'll point out why.

    Here North of the border, there is no dispute about to carry or not to carry, do I feel safe doing this or that, am I having to go to and from via certain areas. There IS NO CARRY! I won't use the sheepdog, as I'm partial to my two longhaired German She(e)p-herd(er)s(the original use of the dog).

    So, my choice to arm is decided for me, I can not and my southern cousins have a choice which is yours to make if your state allows. The point is, you are responsible for yourself, and maybe loved ones, so you should at least be alert to the fact bad things happen to good people. Carrying or not, you should have a plan. Let's go back to jogging. And please, I am not critizing the people in the story. Is it light out, well travelled area, do you vary the route, times you go, cell phone, pepper spray, dog(two thumbs up), are you AWARE of your surroundings(Ipod on turned up loud), so you can AVOID something before it happens.

    I would never look down on anyone for the choice to carry or not, and I don't think the vast majority of CHL holders are wanna-bes. I also don't think that any offence was meant to anyone. I do hope, either way that you stay plugged in to sites such as this one to learn what's going on, and be aware and safe.

    I truly enjoy the open discussion here, although I don't often post. You have a valuable resource, and sounding board to continue the education. Must go, Shepherds need a walk. Although they try to treat ME like a sheep.

    Peter
     
  15. JumpWing

    JumpWing NK WA Member

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    Whether or not you're a genuine sheepdog would depend on who you consider to be part of your "flock."

    Part of being an effective sheepdog means making sure that your actions won't put you in jail. Because a dog in the pound is not an effective security measure for anyone.
     
  16. Ocanada

    Ocanada Way North Member

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    +1 to that. That's all part of the on going education we go through to keep ourselves and the flock safe.

    Peter
     
  17. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

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    I think we have picked up a few who are anti guns
     
  18. FatherHolyHoly

    FatherHolyHoly MN Active Member

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    There have been some good points made. Reading more opinions on the subject has, at the very least, made me realize that I'm being unfairly presumptive about a whole group of people due to the actions of a few.
    You guys might be ok, but I dont want to jump to conclusions again. ;)

    Torpedo, care to elaborate?
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2009
  19. Rix

    Rix Tacoma Active Member

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    I'll call myself whatever I wish.
    Others do, so why not.

    Madman, superhero, egotist, whatever you are, wish to be, think you are etc....

    the "wolves" are still out there.
     
  20. FatherHolyHoly

    FatherHolyHoly MN Active Member

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    ...and then it had to go get stupid.