Poll: Reading Ellul's *Propaganda: The Formation of Men's Attitudes*

[Flopsweat]

I guess my disconnect here is, why on earth should anyone care? Everything taught at that age is in on ear out the other. These kids care more about fortnite and roblox skins than they ever could about critical theory. As they age they will, like most people, come to realize that analyzing race without also analyzing class and history is a useless tool. This is just brain dead administrators trying to cover their behind. It's literally nothing. A few years from now some great new cultural terror will emerge and this will fade into the background radiation.

I totally disagree. There is a reason we call those the "formative years".

 

[Mikej]

Nope, but I was being taught at the time that gay people exist and that what you choose to do with your sex life is your choice. Which was at the time considered to be the harbinger of America's doom.
you should try not caring about what people decide to do with their genitalia. It's a great state of mind to be in.

That said, did you know when you went to school you were being force fed communist propaganda? Because apparently at no point in the existence of public schooling has there ever been a point where people werent getting funneled the Mass Line. That is, if Joe McCarthy and the John Birch Society are to be believed.

Don't ever quote ME again where you leave out parts of the quote! I guess to suit what ever agenda you have.

I'll fix it so the readers of this thread can see what the context of my " I absolutely love this" statement was. I said that because I loved the bolded part in the quote below.

A 2019 Pew poll found 60% of Americans agreed "Gun laws should be MORE strict than they are today" while 28% agreed "Gun laws are about right" and 11% agreed "Gun laws should be LESS strict than they are today". In my anecdotal experience, it is implausible that most of the 60% who want stricter gun laws are well-informed on the relevant Constitutional, philosophical, political, and criminological issues. Moreover, 70% and 71%, respectively, "strongly" or "somewhat" favored "Banning assault-style weapons" and "Banning high-capacity ammunition magazines that hold more than 10 rounds". Yet, a 2020 Annenberg poll found that only 51% of Americans could name all three branches of the US government. I think this illustrates Ellul's larger point that the "majority prefers expressing stupidities to not expressing any opinion".

And I don't care in the slightest about people's sexuality. Or what they do behind closed doors. But I'll tell you what. It's sick minds that are telling mere children that are nowhere near full sexual development that they can choose their sex! Thank god I don't have kids in public schools in the disgusting city.

 

[shooter777]

Yuri Bezmenov was kicked out of the KGB and Russian civil society as a whole for believing that Jews were behind every tiny inconvenience he experienced in life so I would take everything that charlatan says with a Boulder sized grain of salt.

I have not heard that about Bezmenov. Please cite a source. From his own mouth, he defected while he was an agent in India then received asylum in Canada. You still refuted none of his message. I suppose the KGB could retroactively excommunicate Putin since his testimony in recent videos was that approx 490 out of 530 or so top Bolsheviks in the Russian Revolution were Jewish(Ashenazi/Khazar to be exact). Btw, Putin denounced Communism in said video. I'll try and find it for you. The statements were made at Putin's 2019 Press Conference. It's 4.5 hours long. It's in there. I dont' have the time to find it.
Antifa began as a Jewish organization in germany. BLM is funded and run by many Jews including members of the Weather Underground who wanted a Marxist revolution in the USA. These are all facts. I make no grand conspiracy theory here. Make of it what you will.
But, that's not the point here. We are talking about propaganda . Btw, McCarthy and the The John Birch Society were correct in their assertions that there was a Communist infiltration into the USA. Hell, Lenin received 10 Million from NYC bankers and residents to grow his war chest prior to 1917.
Here's an interesting article from the Jerusalem Post about the matter....
https://www.jpost.com/magazine/was-the-russian-revolution-jewish-514323

 

[loadzz]

I have not heard that about Bezmenov. Please cite a source. From his own mouth, he defected while he was an agent in India then received asylum in Canada. You still refuted none of his message. I suppose the KGB could retroactively excommunicate Putin since his testimony in recent videos was that approx 490 out of 530 or so top Bolsheviks in the Russian Revolution were Jewish(Ashenazi/Khazar to be exact). Btw, Putin denounced Communism in said video. I'll try and find it for you. The statements were made at Putin's 2019 Press Conference. It's 4.5 hours long. It's in there. I dont' have the time to find it.
Antifa began as a Jewish organization in germany. BLM is funded and run by many Jews including members of the Weather Underground who wanted a Marxist revolution in the USA. These are all facts. I make no grand conspiracy theory here. Make of it what you will.
But, that's not the point here. We are talking about propaganda . Btw, McCarthy and the The John Birch Society were correct in their assertions that there was a Communist infiltration into the USA. Hell, Lenin received 10 Million from NYC bankers and residents to grow his war chest prior to 1917.
Here's an interesting article from the Jerusalem Post about the matter....
https://www.jpost.com/magazine/was-the-russian-revolution-jewish-514323

What is there to refute exactly? It's the same warmed over garbage anti Semitic far right crap that has been tricking people like you for millennia.

"the civil rights movement is Jewish communist agitation."

cool! That rocks. The civil rights movement was a good thing.

"every bad thing that happens is the result of some jew kgb agent playing 9-d chess"

totally not completely false. Thanks based yuri!

regarding your statement about the percentage of Jews in "top positions" in the Russian revolution. You are aware that that number comes from a virulently anti Semitic pro white army journalist who got the number second hand from an officer in the Black Hundreds? A proto fascist organization that existed to murder Jews because it was surely them causing Russias problems and not the inbred czar?

"Robert Wilton was a British journalist reporting for several Western newspapers as their Russian correspondent during the Russian Civil War. Wilton had served with the Russian army during the First World War and was a strong supporter of the Russian White Army sharing their ideological views including anti-semitism. Wilton had also supported the failed military coup by the White General Kornilov. Wilton's writings are another significant part of the modern neo-nazi mythology surrounding the Judeo-Bolshevism Conspiracy Theory. He is possibly the most cited source for the erroneous claim that the Bolshevik Party and Government were controlled by Jews and mostly consisted of Jews.


In 1921 Wilton put forward the following figures, which have been widely cited by neo-nazis. I quote from a widely circulated neo-nazi article "The Jewish Role in the Bolshevik Revolution and Russia's Early Soviet Regime":

"The 62 members of the [Central] Committee were composed of five Russians… and 41 Jews.

"The Extraordinary Commission [Cheka or Vecheka] of Moscow was composed of 36 members… two Russians, eight Latvians, and 23 Jews.

"The Council of the People's Commissars numbered… three Russians, and 17 Jews."


I'm not going to go through all of the false information put forth by Wilton, but I will give you an idea of just how inaccurate his findings are:

Wilton claimed that out of 22 People's Comissars three were Russians and 17 Jews. In reality the only jewish Comissar was Trotsky.

Wilton includes a number of fabricated names in his list of supposed people's comissars, he removed people who were Russians and included people who Jewish such as Zinoviev even if they were not actually People's Comissars at all.

The People's Comissars in 1917:

Chairman: V. I. Lenin (1/4 Russian, Tatar, German, Jewish)
Commissar of Agriculture: V. P. Milyutin (Russian)
Commissars of Army and Navy: V. A. Ovseyenko, N. V. Krylenko, P. V. Dybenko (Russians, Ovseyenko was ethnic ukranian)
Commissar of Commerce and Industry: V. P. Nogin (Russian)
Commissar of Education: A. V. Lunacharsky (Ukranian)
Commissar of Food: I. A. Teodorovich (Polish, not jewish)
Commissar of Foreign Affairs: L. D. Trotsky (jewish)
Commissar of Interior: A. I. Rykov (Russian)
Commissar of Justice: G. I. Oppokov (Russian)
Commissar of Labour: A. G. Shlyapnikov (Russian)
Commissar of Nationality Affairs: I. V. Stalin (Georgian)
Commissar of Post and Telegraphs: N. P. Avilov (Russian)
Commissar of Treasury: I. I. Skvortsov-Stepanov (Russian)

Wilton claimed that the Soviet government consisted of three Russians and nine jews.

"Bronstein (Trotsky), Apfelbaum (Zinoviev), Lurie (Larine), Uritsky, Volodarski, Rosenfeld (Kamenev), Smidovich, Sverdlov (Yankel), and Nakhamkes (Steklov).The three Russians were: Ulyanov (Lenin), Krylenko, and Lunacharsky."

In reality Lurie, Nakhamkes, Smidovitch, and Volodarski weren't even in the Central Executive Committee. Wilton claims the government was 12 people, 9 of whom were jews. In reality the government was 15 people and included 4 jews.


Members of the Government (Central Executive Committee):
Artem F. A., Buharin N. I. (Russian), Vladimirskij M. F. (Russian), Dzerzhinskij F. E. (Pole), Zinovjev G. E. (Jew), Krestinskij N. N. (Ukrainian), Lashevich M. M., Lenin V. I. (Russian*), Sverdlov Ja. M. (Jew), Smilga I. T., Sokol'nikov G. Ja. (Jew), Stalin I. V. (Georgian), Stasova E. D. (Russian), Trotskij L. D. (Jew), Shmidt V. V. (German)

antifa was not a Jewish organization. You're just a moron. It was a broad coalition of people opposed to the Nazi party.

Blm is also, as we've said before. Not run by Jews. Why is this group even lumped in with your conspiratorial ramblings? They can't even get any legislation enacted. Those Jews sure are slacking!

Lenin also received money from the Kaiser. Does that mean Kaiser Wilhelm was a jew?

the only thing that McCarthy was correct about in his entire life was his notion that drinking himself into a shallow cowards grave was a good idea. It was his only good one.

 

[NW Backpacker]

IBTL

 

[Mikej]

IBTL

Boy, this went into the ditch. Crashed, AND burned. Dude is a thread burner, that's for sure. Another one of those people that like calling people names when they get frustrated from their lack of discussion skilzz.

 

[loadzz]

Boy, this went into the ditch. Crashed, AND burned. Dude is a thread burner, that's for sure. Another one of those people that like calling people names when they get frustrated from their lack of discussion skilzz.

You defending the neo Nazi I'm responding to calling everything the fault of the Jews?

 

[Flopsweat]

Boy, this went into the ditch. Crashed, AND burned. Dude is a thread burner, that's for sure. Another one of those people that like calling people names when they get frustrated from their lack of discussion skilzz.

You defending the neo Nazi I'm responding to calling everything the fault of the Jews?

I have noticed anti-Semitic stuff showing up on a few different forums recently, where I've never seen it before. Just a caution for management here: I saw this same pattern before Reddit started shutting down conservative doms. The Cancel Culture uses this sort of thing as a reason for going after social media companies, accounts and forums. I don't think what's going on here is all that subtle. I don't have a dog in the Jew/Skinhead fight but I know KKK rhetoric when I read it.

EDIT: Redundancy.

 

[JackFrost]

I have noticed anti-Semitic stuff showing up recently on a few different forums recently, where I've never seen it before. Just a caution for management here: I saw this same pattern before Reddit started shutting down conservative doms. The Cancel Culture uses this sort of thing as a reason for going after social media companies, accounts and forums. I don't think what's going on here is all that subtle. I don't have a dog in the Jew/Skinhead fight but I know KKK rhetoric when I read it.

Sobering how many new "members" have popped up in the last 6 months and are incredibly combative, accusatory and dare I say..... Opposite of the rest of the 99% on this board. The attacks are increasing! Be careful, be very careful!

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

You defending the neo Nazi I'm responding to calling everything the fault of the Jews?

shooter777 asked you a legitimate question about an unsubstantiated allegation you made against Bezmenov and then s/he made some sketchy, unsubstantiated assertions of her/his own. You could have replied rationally with evidence, questions, and reasoned arguments but instead you went off the rails with accusations, name-calling and, apparently, inapt stuff about Wilton, who shooter777 never mentioned so far as I can tell. Name-calling or ad hominem attacks are a way of silencing others or derailing discussions.

shooter777 may be an antisemite and neonazi but there's no conclusive evidence of that in this thread. You, on the other hand, have provided ample evidence that you share a great affinity with those who, on often specious grounds, would prefer to demonize or silence people rather than engage them with respectful and reasoned discourse.

Since this is a thread that's supposed to be about Ellul's book Propaganda I will quote him:

Propaganda ceases where simple dialogue begins. (p. 6)

Propaganda cannot be satisfied with partial successes, for it does not tolerate discussion; by its very nature, it excludes contradiction and discussion. As long as a noticeable or expressed tension or a conflict of action remains, propaganda cannot be said to have accomplished its aim. It must produce quasi-unanimity, and the opposing faction must become negligible, or in any case cease to be vocal. (p. 11)

Ellul also wrote:

Under the influence of propaganda certain latent drives that are vague, unclear, and often without any particular objective suddenly become powerful, direct, and precise. Propaganda furnishes objectives, organizes the traits of an individual's personality into a system, and freezes them into a mold." (p. 162)

Ellul call this phenomenon "psychological crystallization". He continues:

Once propaganda begins to utilize and direct an individual's hatreds, he no longer has any chance to retreat, to reduce his animosities, or to seek reconciliations with his opponents. (pp. 162-163)

... this crystallization closes his mind to all new ideas. The individual now has a set of prejudices and beliefs, as well as objective justifications. His entire personality now revolves around those elements. Every new idea will therefore be troublesome to his entire being. He will defend himself against it because it threatens to destroy his certainties. He thus actually comes to hate everything opposed to what propaganda has made him acquire. Propaganda has created in him a system of opinions and tendencies which may not be subjected to criticism. That system leaves no room for ambiguity or mitigation of feelings; the individual has received irrational certainties from propaganda, and precisely because they are irrational, they seem to him part of his personality. He feels personally attacked when these certainties are attacked. (p. 166)

 

[shooter777]

^^^^Thank you for that, RC7. I intended to respond to Lulzzz that the purpose of my post was to bring up Bezmenov's interview where he details his role and understanding of Soviet/Bolshie/Marxist/Leninist Ideological Subversion. I found it fascinating as it relates to the present day. This was pertinent to the conversation at hand.

I made no anti-Semitic remarks. If Luddz wants some direct sources and more info, I can provide them. If I'm wrong after revisiting historical facts, then I'll admit my mistakes. Semitism is not exclusively of the Jewish Diaspora. It encompasses different religions, ethnicities and cultures. Look it up on the beloved Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic_people
I'm sure Lulzzz knows this and is merely trolling. The info I alluded to regarding the Bolsheviks/Mensheviks is open source. Luldzz didn't seem to address the Jerusalem Post article I linked either.

 

[RedCardinalSeven]

^^^^Thank you for that, RC7. I intended to respond to Lulzzz that the purpose of my post was to bring up Bezmenov's interview where he details his role and understanding of Soviet/Bolshie/Marxist/Leninist Ideological Subversion. I found it fascinating as it relates to the present day. This was pertinent to the conversation at hand.

Do not mistake my critique of loadzz's posts as any endorsement of your own. I do not agree that your contributions to this thread so far have been either "pertinent" or helpful.

 

[shooter777]

^^^I merely brought up Bezmenov's interview about ideological subversion. To my mind, his interview is pertinent to the current Marxist subversion in this country. Loads rejected the entire thing based upon some claim of anti Semitism that he did not even attempt to support. Then he calls me a Nazi for bringing up facts about the Bolsheviks, Antifa.... Just more Ad Hominem. I don't need your endorsement nor do I need to suckle at people's feet proving that I am no white supremacist. I wouldn't even be welcome by white supremacists as I am mixed. It's laughable. This kind of circular argument reminds me of the old quip, "So when did you stop beating your wife?" Enjoy your discussion. I'm out.