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Question - SOG Assist Technology - Oregon

Discussion in 'Knives & Other Discussion' started by RicInOR, May 13, 2014.

  1. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Does this kind of assist meet the standard for

    Oregon Public Order Offense 166.240 Carrying of concealed weapons. (1) Except as provided in subsection (2) of this section, any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, ice pick, slungshot, metal knuckles, or any similar instrument by the use of which injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person, commits a Class B misdemeanor.

    And therefore would be a knife one could not carry in public?

    T I A




    SOG example: http://www.sogknives.com/flash-i-straight-edge.html
     
  2. Trailboss

    Trailboss Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    It does not spring out on it's own when unlocked, rather it must be manually opened with the thumb pressing against the pivot. Therefore it is legal in WA and OR.
     
    RicInOR likes this.
  3. Juggernaut

    Juggernaut Ory'gun Active Member

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    The statute is referring to the method of carry. In this instance concealing such a weapon on your person would be the offense.. not specifically the weapons design. Prohibited weapon designs are covered elsewhere.

    Oregon is one of the few states that allow the carry of spring aided knives, just not concealed carry.

    I don't have a statute to cite about what exactly constitutes concealed, but I have asked Troopers, Deputies and City Officers about what they consider to be concealed. The general attitude is that pocket clips are concealed, belt sheathes/pouches are not. YMMV

    In regards to design, be mindful of double edge blades and blade length both of which can get you in trouble.

    The OFF website has some information and links other resources.
     
  4. omenwolf

    omenwolf Oregon Active Member

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    If you are carring the knife in your pocket with the clip so that the clip is visible it is no longer concealed.
     
  5. phydeaux

    phydeaux Beaverton New Member

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    This is my understanding as well - an assisted opening or switchblade with a pocket clip showing is not concealed.

    Although as Juggernaut notes, not all LEOs may agree with that interpretation - especially if they're already looking for a reason to detain or arrest a potential suspect.
     
  6. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Phy makes an important point here. Much of the time people are being scrutinized for things such as blade length, they are already on the radar for other circumstances, such as lurking around the back of a store after hours or driving hinky.
    If you're squared away and minding your own business, what's in your pocket or on a clip or belt sheath will never probably be an issue.
     
  7. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I thought this would be more clear ... silly me.

    I am in the market for an EDC and have no reason to put myself in a position to have to defend a choice legally.

    What is an "Ordinary pocket knife" ?
    In Independence, OR Sec. 18-233 "ordinary pocket knife" is one with a maximum blade length of three and one-half inches,
    Wonder if that is the generally accepted standard. I have heard of people who have to travel thru a number of jurisdictions choosing under 3 in blade length for EDC.
    The 3 1/2 in length restriction comes up in a couple other local jurisdictions.

    I my mind, there is a big difference between an "automatic" opening knife and an "assisted" knife.


    This guy is based in Eugene
    http://pweb.netcom.com/~brlevine/sta-law.htm
    http://knife-expert.com/or.txt


    From Handgunlaw.us
    http://www.handgunlaw.us/documents/USKnife.pdf

    http://www.kniferights.org/
    http://www.thetruthaboutknives.com/

    http://www.knifeup.com/oregon-knife-laws/

    ORS
    161.015 & 166.24
    Dangerous weapon” means any weapon, device, instrument, material or substance which under the circumstances in which it is used, attempted to be used or threatened to be used, is readily capable of causing death or serious physical injury.
    This could be rock, water, fire even air.

    Any person who carries concealed upon the person any knife having a blade that projects or swings into
    position by force of a spring or by centrifugal force, any dirk, dagger, or any similar instrument by the use of which Injury could be inflicted upon the person or property of any other person
    ,

    No Blade Length In OR Laws.
    'Cause they cite "ordinary"
    Cities/Counties/etc may list max blade length - ie 3 1/2 in.




    What is an "Ordinary pocket knife" ? (http://www.knifeup.com/oregon-knife-laws/)
    In 1978, in the case of State v. Pruett, the Supreme Court of Oregon found that a “Sportman’s” knife with a 3 ½-inch blade, which folded manually into the handle of the knife, but locked when fully open, was an “ordinary pocketknife”.
    One year after the Pruett decision, in State v. Strong, the court found that a knife with a 4 ¾ inch folding blade fit the definition of a pocketknife.
    However, in 1986, in State v. Witherbee, Mr. Witherbee was indicted and convicted for carrying concealed a six inch Survival Knife, and the Court upheld his conviction finding that the knife he was carrying was not an ordinary pocketknife.


    Dirk or Dagger (http://www.knifeup.com/oregon-knife-laws/)
    In the case of State v. Ruff, the Oregon Court of Appeals declared that since the terms “dirk” and “dagger” were not defined by statute, the legislature intended that the ordinary meanings of the words apply. When a Court uses the ordinary meaning of a word, it generally looks to Webster’s Dictionary for that meaning.

    M-W.com: Dirk is "a long straight-bladed dagger"
    Dagger: "a sharp pointed knife that is used as a weapon" -- couldn't that be most any knife?

    Concealed Carry (http://www.knifeup.com/oregon-knife-laws/)
    In State v. Turner, the Supreme Court of Oregon declared that a weapon was concealed if it was not readily identifiable as a weapon or if the person carrying it attempted to obscure the fact that he or she was carrying a weapon. The Court also said that a weapon was concealed within the meaning of the statute even if it was recognizable if there is also evidence of an imperfect attempt to prevent it from being discovered or recognized.

    In State v. Crumal, the Court found that the conceal carry statute referred to weapons that were on and moved along with the carrier’s body. It did not include weapons that were just in reasonable proximity to the person or in some place where the weapons would be deemed to be in the constructive possession of the person. Thus, the Court ruled that a defendant could not be convicted of carrying a concealed weapon, where the weapon was being carried under the floor mat on the passenger side of a vehicle.

    • ORS § 166.240 (2011)
    • ORS § 166.270 (2011)
     
  8. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    re: @Doc In UPlace

    I first got my CHL because of LEO interpretation of the law. You are out in the woods minding your own business without an CHL, and your jacket covers most of a gun. Concealed? Legal? Is the officer suffering PMS?

    I don't consider myself to be a sympathetic suspect. I am more the A* who would say things like "what was your 4th amendment reason for looking under that jacket over there" ?

    So while I agree, it is best to not come under the attention of any LEO, there are circumstances where it will happen.

    Look at the woman in CO who was injured in an auto crash and had the LEO secure her gun for safe keeping while she went to the hospital. Now, they don't want to give it back without an Background check - well they don't want to give it back at all (look at the new-ish anti-gun laws in that state). She would not have come to the attention of law enforcement had she not been in the crash.

    I try to avoid those things. There has been plenty of discussion on the topic, but the avoidance is why I will not carry into a Post Office - not even the parking lot.


    re: @phydeaux and @omenwolf
    From Knife Up http://www.knifeup.com/oregon-knife-laws/
    State v. Turner
    I think that showing the clip would still mean a knife was concealed.




    I am not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.
     
  9. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Definitely a YMMV situation in that community standards and practices and even laws (!) will determine what is "nothing" vs "big deal."
    Police have to have a measure of discretion when dealing with life on the street.
    Up here what is visible AFTER the jacket is removed constitutes concealment. In your town it may be a different standard.
    If you can find an officer sitting in a parking lot reading a computer screen, chat them up a little and ask about how local ordinances are dealt with there.
    I've found d police to be fairly approachable, though my job as an investigator may shape my presentation to them and so result in a slightly different response.
     
  10. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    @Doc In UPlace -

    I understand your answer, talk to the local guys and see what they are doing.
    But, understand my frustration - that is never the answer.
    Joe SWAT wanna-be comes riding up on his 6000 lb police interceptor and a cop you just had a polite adult chat with gets to be a witness.

    This is not the officers fault.

    They are forced to interpret due to the fuzziness in the law.

    Sometimes it is a screw driver. Othertimes a weapon. Go to a gas station, the clerk doesn't see the candybar when you pay for the gas and you leave, all while that screwdriver was in your pocket. Could they get you on robbery - because of the weapon?

    I know, you are thinking that it is more likely to win the lottery than to suffer this crap. But...


    Maybe my privilege is clouding my judgement.
     
  11. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Follow up to my original post -
    I got a couple of EDC - one is sub 3" the other is ~3.5
    Both Kershaws
    borrowed the photos from mr. internet

    blurs.jpg




    kryo.jpg



    The images came out sized automatically - the Cryo is smaller than the Blur, but the same weight.

    On line reviews:
    https://www.youtube.com/user/nutnfancy/search?query=Kershaw
     
  12. phydeaux

    phydeaux Beaverton New Member

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    This is why I would never carry a really nice pistol concealed. Even a $600 Springfield or Glock is a lot to lose in the event of a defensive pistol use. Admittedly, I carry a Glock now, but I'm looking to complement that with a small 9mm like a Baretta Nano or something lower cost...
     
  13. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    The nice thing about a $600 glock is the next one is the same.
    Same, I think with most striker fired pistols.

    I don't have experience with DA or DA/SA, to know, but I would still suspect that most of the sub $750 are the same in the product line, or would be with a little work.
     
  14. Three Bars

    Three Bars Active Member

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    To back up a little bit...

    So what it comes down to is how the LEO interprets the statute, which can change from one jurisdiction to the next.
    And it seems that a 3" blade is less likely to cause any friction than a larger blade.

    Also, I'm seeing that the consensus is that SOG Assisted Technology is legal in both Or and Wa.

    I just wanted to clarify being that I have three SOG knives, two of which have Assisted Tech. including my EDC.

    As an aside, the hex nut system that the blade rotates on in my five year old SOG Mini Vulcan came loose and dropped out last week.
    I called SOG on Tues. and the replacement arrived today free of charge, and shipping...good customer service.:)