pulling a gun on an unarmed civilian that ir running through your yard at night

[lippidude]

BS... a 6' tall fence (or any fence for that matter) is an implied "STAY OUT / NO TRESPASSING" sign unless there is a gate with a welcome sign hanging on it... why else go through the trouble and expense of building a flippin' fence? How do you know the kid wasn't scoping the place out on the fly? How do you know the kids wasn't going to do a "smash 'n grab" on his way through to the other fence, but saw the owner and kept truckin'? Plus it was dark to top it all off.




OFF TOPIC (a bit)

Some kids are absolutely going off the deep end these days, but I can tell you the punks in my "barrio" know my house is not the one to mess with. About a month ago I was on my front porch and told (didn't ask politely) a couple "gangsta wannabes" to quit teasing my dog through the front fence... they told me to "go F-myself and that they'd kick my a$$"...

I came through the front gate and thanked them for threatening me, racked the slide on my 12ga. Mossberg (that I keep behind the door alternated with with 00-buck and 1-oz slugs) and shouldered it at them to make my point... shoulda seen the blood drain from their little "gangsta" faces... yeah I let 'em run off, but I would've punched their tickets if they'd have escalated the situation, and it would have been legal because they threatened me with physical harm and I had witnesses to back my up.

Yeah, all that over "teasing a dog", right?... THEY instigated it, THEY escalated it, I finished it.


Nobody EVEN looks cross-eyed at my place after that... I'm positive the word got out, and that's the way I like it. I'm that, "somebody you come accross once in a while you shoulnd't have messed with."

love the picture btw. ya it is a little off topic, those bubblegums asked for a problem when they did that though. those bubblegums have no respect for property when they begin to rebel like that. I would say in that case they are disrespecting your property more because they not only menace your dog, but threaten you, in which you have every right to scare them cause they need to be taught a lesson in self control and respect for others.

The kid in my story was not starting anything. infact If i remember correctly he was crying when the cops came to check out the scene. Ya he probably wont become and vengfull serial killer because of that, but he didnt deserve to feel like he was inches away from death. This is a suburban neighborhood,with cookie cutter houses. Not a few acres and a fence around it. I believe the owner practiced his rights a bit beyond what was needed.

I do love grand torino though. Those bubblegums deserve to be put in place.

 

[bignate]

I lived in a town where this game was played. Heard of a couple of situations like this one, scared the bubblegum out of me, so I never played. One involved a lady doing dishes and she saw a head go past her window, out came the 12ga and phone. Another involved a kid going to the back door of what he thought was his friends house...

Personally I would never jump into a persons backyard in the middle of the night expecting anything other than to have a gun pulled on me...

 

[lippidude]

It was night time. I do agree I would have gone outside with a gun just in case because You never know. However, the extent that the home owner went to threaten this kid was a bit much. ten minutes without calling the cops and having a gun pointed in your face while being accussed and yelled at. I dont think many people can keep their cool under those circumstances. You never know the mind set of a civilian. with cops at least you know you have a few second to put down your gun, or get down with your hands on your head before bubblegum goes down.

 

[lippidude]

So i just talked to a friend whom was involved in the incident. He was the kids running partner. Apparently the cops where not called by the home owner, but by thi kid I had jsut spoken to. so the home owner made no attempt to take legal action in terms of resolution to the incident. Also the kid was on the ground at gun point in the front yard with his hands on his head when the cops arrived.

 

[Redcap]

I wouldn't have called the cops either.

 

[sigman]

To the OP. Certain states have a castle/farmers law where they have the right to shoot anyone on their property. I know NH had it when I lived there. While the teenager might have been playing a game....he might have been playing for stakes he did not know he was playing for. Stay off property that is not yours.

Llook at ther foreign exchange student down in Lousiana about 10 years ago. In costume and drunk beating on the wrong door in the middle of the night got him LEGALLY killed.

 

[Reco]

OK, so I'm commenting without all the facts, BUT...
Only the trespass was committed at the time of detainment, which is not a felony.
You cannot arrest for something you think someone is trying to do, you must witness it.
Even had a burglary begun, it's not a felony unless they are armed or assault someone.
Or they would have had to have stolen or vandalized over $250 in damages to become a felony.

Not quite.


164.225¹

Burglary in the first degree
(1) A person commits the crime of burglary in the first degree if the person violates ORS 164.215 (Burglary in the second degree) and the building is a dwelling, or if in effecting entry or while in a building or in immediate flight therefrom the person:

(a) Is armed with a burglary tool or theft device as defined in ORS 164.235 (Possession of a burglary tool or theft device) or a deadly weapon;

(b) Causes or attempts to cause physical injury to any person; or

(c) Uses or threatens to use a dangerous weapon.

(2) Burglary in the first degree is a Class A felony. [1971 c.743 §137; 2003 c.577 §10]

Oregon ORS.164.215¹

Burglary in the second degree
(1) Except as otherwise provided in ORS 164.255 (Criminal trespass in the first degree), a person commits the crime of burglary in the second degree if the person enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.

(2) Burglary in the second degree is a Class C felony. [1971 c.743 §136; 1993 c.680 §24]


If someone is running through your property in middle of the night it would be easy to suspect they are attempting or in the process of commiting a Burglary. Possesion of Burlar tools is enough to have them considered to be in possesion of a Deadly Weapon.

Also this <broken link removed>

 

[The B]

Not quite.

Oregon ORS.164.215¹

Burglary in the second degree
(1) Except as otherwise provided in ORS 164.255 (Criminal trespass in the first degree), a person commits the crime of burglary in the second degree if the person enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.

(2) Burglary in the second degree is a Class C felony. [1971 c.743 §136; 1993 c.680 §24]

backyards are not buildings

 

[Russianfist]

The kid was not "trespassing". That would occur -if- the property owner told him to leave and he -the kid- refused. The home owner had no reason to believe that the kid was doing anything other than traveling through his yard, he obviously wasn't posing a threat, since he was trying to escape over the fence. His holding him amounted to unlawful imprisionment if not kidnapping and assault with a deadly weapon.

In that case why should we have fences around our property at all? I mean, if its ok for anyone to tromp through our yards when ever they want,right? Is it not enough that we fence our yards but then have to post a bunch of signs to tell people to stay out? What if the teenager didn't speak english? Do we then have to post a bunch of signs in several languages to inform them to stay out? When is a fence not enough to say. "Hey Jack wagon! Don't go there"?

Where's your common sence people?

 

[coop44]

Excellent, bring up common sense!! Most of these young turds lack any at all. Am I supposed to have enough for them too? I don't think so. What is more disturbing is that so many of them seem to lack any kind of "Moral Compass", you know, that little voice in your head that says "maybe I shouldn't do this because it's wrong/stupid/illegal". The prevailing attitude among these turds "I think I can get away with this". Over the span of their short lives they have accumulated a slew of defenses, justifications and excuses for their behavior that they think gives them the right to do as they wish, without ramifications.

 

[lippidude]

Excellent, bring up common sense!! Most of these young turds lack any at all. Am I supposed to have enough for them too? I don't think so. What is more disturbing is that so many of them seem to lack any kind of "Moral Compass", you know, that little voice in your head that says "maybe I shouldn't do this because it's wrong/stupid/illegal". The prevailing attitude among these turds "I think I can get away with this". Over the span of their short lives they have accumulated a slew of defenses, justifications and excuses for their behavior that they think gives them the right to do as they wish, without ramifications.

in this situation your correct. The kid didn't expect it because he thought he could get away with it, but i'm sure a majority of us don't always think about the wrong/stupid/illegal when we do a lot of things. everyone lacks common sense, we see it in teens and we see it in presidents, and every where in between.

 

[Redcap]

in this situation your correct. The kid didn't expect it because he thought he could get away with it, but i'm sure a majority of us don't always think about the wrong/stupid/illegal when we do a lot of things. everyone lacks common sense, we see it in teens and we see it in presidents, and every where in between.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

 

[The B]

kids don't care. it's good to see somebody put the scare in them from time to time. surely there are "good" kids out there... i've run across one or two, and i certainly knew some geeks in high school, but they're not the types you're going to find out hanging with the boys in the middle of the night. and naturally, games like the one in question will attract the kids with less inhibitions. running through peoples' yards is a well established aspect of the game- its expected that yards will be run through, and even a little property damage done. since the "fugitives" are in a fugitive mindset, its especially easy to crash into the side of someone's car parked in their driveway, putting a big dent in the door or breaking a taillight, and then just run away.

the problem is that we've sheltered the need to thrill-seek into their lives. we've high-fructose-corn-syrup'd and video-gamed enough nervous energy into them that they combine that with the other to end up jumping peoples fences in the middle of the night. and as we HFCS and video-game them worse and worse, the more we're gonna see them out thrill seeking and disrespecting people. it's been a slow progression since the invention of the middle class.. since the invention of child labor laws and 40-hour work weeks... all those things that sounded so fun at the time, are, every generation, biting us in the *** worse and worse. kids should be earning their keep and focusing on their studies- not out driving suped up honda civics over people's mailboxes while playing fugitive in the middle of the night.

how do i know all this? it took getting sent to military school to settle MY disrespectful, hyperactive, trouble-making *** down. and unfortunately, most of my friends werent as lucky- except for one, they're all dead, in jail, or on parole.... exactly where i'd be, if it wasn't for the military.

just one former JD's perspective.

 

[The B]

in this situation your correct. The kid didn't expect it because he thought he could get away with it, but i'm sure a majority of us don't always think about the wrong/stupid/illegal when we do a lot of things. everyone lacks common sense, we see it in teens and we see it in presidents, and every where in between.

we expect too much from them. we expect them to be responsible, then we HOLD them responsible when they aren't. they're kids- and when they're out bubbleguming bubblegum up, it's still some their bad, but it's mostly OUR bad for not properly channeling their energy.

mostly, i think we need to stop treating them like adults. they're not. they're children. we give them "respect" and "independence" and "responsibility" years before they earn it. screw that... i have 4 boys, and i can tell you right now, they will EARN their independence, respect, and responsibility BEFORE they get it. not the other way around.

and hopefully, with that sense of ownership over their progress in life, they avoid making the artard mistakes i made, right under the noses of my unsuspecting, trusting, giving, idiot parents.

 

[sprocket3]

16 illegals sue Arizona rancher - Washington Times

I know this is out of state and off topic a little, though you can't forget about the "civil rights" card. There is another similar case in Texas that I know of.

 

[Russianfist]

we expect too much from them. we expect them to be responsible, then we HOLD them responsible when they aren't. they're kids- and when they're out bubbleguming bubblegum up, it's still some their bad, but it's mostly OUR bad for not properly channeling their energy.

mostly, i think we need to stop treating them like adults. they're not. they're children. we give them "respect" and "independence" and "responsibility" years before they earn it. screw that... i have 4 boys, and i can tell you right now, they will EARN their independence, respect, and responsibility BEFORE they get it. not the other way around.

and hopefully, with that sense of ownership over their progress in life, they avoid making the artard mistakes i made, right under the noses of my unsuspecting, trusting, giving, idiot parents.

I agree that proper parenting plays a roll in a lot of this but what do you do with the kids (like the OP) who disregard the rights of property owners and think its ok to enter a fenced yard without consent of the owner? What's wrong with a good old fashioned reality check for stupid kids? Where is the accountablity for the kids? If the parents arnt going to teach them then they need to learn it another way. I am willing to bet that the kid in the OP never crossed a fence again. If he did,well he didn't learn his lesson the first time. I guess I'm just old fashioned. My folks raised me and said "here's the rules,break them and we tan your hyde". I broke the rules and I was out picking a switch to get my butt beat with. I learned the rules fast after that.

 

[coop44]

Guess what, if we started locking up the PARENTS of these little miscreants what do you think would happen? That's right, I wager things would change overnight. You should be made completely responsible for what your kid does, after all you made it you should have to clean up after it. Financial and CRIMINAL responsibility, sound like the ticket to me.

 

[SargentMac]

In the state of Oregon there is no legal requirement for "No Trespassing" signs to be posted. The kid had no reason to believe that the property was open to the public and had every reason to believe the opposite. However, I would have made my presence known, rifle in hand at low ready, and told him to stay off my property and let his friends know.

 

[The B]

Guess what, if we started locking up the PARENTS of these little miscreants what do you think would happen? That's right, I wager things would change overnight. You should be made completely responsible for what your kid does, after all you made it you should have to clean up after it. Financial and CRIMINAL responsibility, sound like the ticket to me.

are you kidding me? we'd have epidemic teenage crime. think about that suggestion for a half a minute longer.

 

[coop44]

are you kidding me? we'd have epidemic teenage crime. think about that suggestion for a half a minute longer.

Maybe darwinism would win, and the stupid ones would get killed off before they could breed more stupid little turds. (like their stupid parents did)

seems to be the whole problem in a nutshell anyway

The stupid ones breed and follow the "free range" philosophy of child rearing

perhaps some should be allowed to breed under controlled conditions, after all we always need more leo's, politicians and lawyers.