Problems with brand new winchester brass

[Fltche1]

Just curious to see if anybody else has had these issues besides me... I bought a brand new bag of Winchester 7mm Rem Mag brass to do some reloading and development since I got a new rifle and it is time to see what it wants to diet on. I was going through and inspecting my brass as I was throwing primers in it and I was a little shocked and rather annoyed with some of the brass that I found. Now maybe this is a shame on me for buying Winchester brass but irregardless, Winchester's QC (Quality Control) should have caught this I would think...

In this first photo You can see there is a triangular dent into the case shoulder that extends the entire shoulder. The upper section is completely folded/creased. There is a sharp angle protruding on the inside of the case. In my mind this case is garbage due to the fact that sharp creases like that are a stress riser and that will be the failure point. This is exacerbated by the fact that this is a magnum cartridge.

My next complaint is the case mouths themselves. I have found a handful of cases that have out of round case mouths. The case mouth on the left is fairly round and used as a reference. The case mouth on the right has some sharper corners (especially the part more towards the bottom of the picture. (I apologize as it was hard to get my camera to focus on the case mouth.) I don't think that any of these cases are unservicable due to the case mouth being out of round but it definitely means it will have to be run through the dies. Once again, I would think that Winchester's QC should have caught this.

Perhaps this is me being anal, perhaps I am justified in my concern (Especially the dent with the crease). Just thought I would throw this out to you guys to see what you think. It is safe to say I will be emailing Winchester and providing them with the photographs as well. I will be curious to see how they respond.

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[v0lcom13sn0w]

i use win brass for my 308. yeah on new brass ive seen some bent case mouths. i usually fix them then load it. its annoying but i make it work. im not a bench shooter. i load mainly for hunting and target practice and havent been able to tell which ones were bent and had to be fixed and which werent.

never had any dented shoulders tho. i blame it on the loose packaging. maybe it is a QC issue? ive never had a bent case mouth on hornady brass. it seems to be a bit a more secured and not bangin around as much in the cardboard box it comes in.

 

[gmerkt]

Okay, the fold or pucker at the shoulder of the case, that is a factory defect. The brass isn't formed right and the added stress that the fold creates will probably cause it to crack prematurely at the mouth or neck. Sometimes you'll see little dings or dents (like oil dents, for example) that get in the shoulder. These are no problem and will fire form out. But that fold will never fire form out. I used to see this occasionally in rifle brass made in eastern Europe. Most newer WW brass is now made in a newer plant in Mississippi. Previously, most of it was made in East Alton, IL. I liked the older stuff better.

I wouldn't load a case with a fold in it like that. I'd throw it in the scrap brass box. Would I complain to the factory about one or two cases like that? Probably not worth the trouble. If I contacted them and they asked me to return the cases, definitely not.

The bent "out of round" case mouths aren't a big problem. You can use the expander button in your sizing die to round them out, just put the expander button slightly into the case mouth, don't push it all the way through. Or you could use a tapered punch (like a center punch to gently round them out by hand.

Yes, some of the bent case mouths are attributable to handling during shipping. You should see some .38-40's that I just got from Midway. Yes, they were in a small box of 100 but the dopes in the shipping department shipped them in a plastic bag.

Of more concern to me would be the ragged edge on the case mouth. Or so it appears in the pictures. Even if the cases aren't over length, I'd be interested in trimming them enough to cut the rough edge off. I've seen that on WW brass before. And in my experience, if any one brand of brass is going to be over-length from the factory, it's gonna be WW. So best to check it for that as well.

 

[ron]

Lately I have been sizing and chamfer/deburr case mouth of new WW 223 brass.
Did not use to. Case mouths need chamfer/deburr to ease of seating bullet.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Winchester brass has been horrible for more than a few years. Do an internet search and youll see that. The last bag of ww brass i bought had issues. I threw away 3 or 4 pieces right off the bat. The rest i loaded up and the neck tension was light. The brass is real thin. I decided to not use it, since i shoot it in my AR10. its all basically like new but flawed enough that its going in the scrap bin. Recently, I have been using sig sauer 308 win brass with excellent results.

 

[slacktide]

I've given up on Winchester brass. I've seen the shoulder crease plenty and toss those and nearly all have oblong flash holes and flash holes of different sizes. This certainly won't help burn consistency!

Out of round case mouth is normal. You will want to run these through a sizer die or at least over the expander ball - that way they will be closer to how they will be in subsequent firings. In other words you have controlled the neck right from the start not the manufacturer.

Recently I have started to use Hornady brass. It seems to be affordable, available, and pretty consistent. It does, however, seem to be a little on the soft side. Not sure how I feel about neck tension just yet.

 

[eightyeight mag]

I stay away from winchester brass just because of all the bad factory ammo I have ran into over the years. I won't even buy winchester rimfire. I've just had too many problems with it.

That being said, I always size my new brass.
I prefer Norma and Nosler brass, but I always run it through the die just because I want my brass to be consistent.
My .02

 

[Greenbug]

Winchester brass is not "ready to load" out of the package. They should all be sized, trimmed, chamfered and deburred prior to their first loading for best results. Not to say you can't just load them right out of the package, but that is not what is intended. The first picture is a case forming defect that is fairly common, throw that one away. The out of round neck and various dents and dings come from the final tumbling process before packaging. Nothing to worry about there, just need to size them and prepare them like a once fired case.

If you want ready to load brass out of the package then look for Lapua, Nosler or the like. There is a reason these cost more for sure....

 

[IRY]

I bought some Win. brass in 204 Ruger recently and had the same issues. Only had to throw 2 out of 200 away due to the shoulder crease. As others had said already the case mouth is pretty common when you get brass in a bag. They are just tumbling around in that bag from the factory to distributor then retailer and finally to your bench.

 

[Mikej]

WTH? Reading this I'm surprised any one would by new Winchester brass? You can get banged up brass off the ground out in the forest! You can by once or twice fired brass from members for pennies on the dollar from members that don't look like that. There's commercial reloaders that sell used brass too. Certainly not folded at the shoulder like the OPs. I only load hand gun at this point, so maybe I'm missing something?

 

[Crohnos01]

Winchester brass has been pretty sucky for awhile now. I had bought a bag a couple years ago and has the same shoulder fold scenario as the OP. On the bright side I complained about it to Winchester and they sent me a new bag in exchange for the bad piece. Supposedly they were going to figure out what happened... They wanted the original bag lot number, etc. Good to see they have worked out the kinks

 

[Otter]

I've never had the fold on the shoulder like that, but out of round case mouths are par for the course, even on quality brass. I've seen the same on Lapua brass but not as bad. I usually don't do anything to my new brass...just load and shoot. I don't expect much on the first firing of brass since it is essentially fire forming to your chamber. Probably should size it but i don't.

I have had Winchester brass split necks on the first firing. One 22-250 batch was so bad about half of them split. I don't think they were annealed or not annealed correctly. I tossed them all and wrote it off as lesson learned. I don't buy much Winchester brass any more. Lapua or Norma is my first choice. More expensive but it lasts much longer.

 

[Fltche1]

I think it is fair to say that my Winchester brass buying days are over as there are much better places to acquire brass. I had a bag of 308 Win. brass from federal premium I got as a gift and dug into it. Not a defect to be found. Not even an out of round case mouth where it needs to be run through a die ECT. Dimensions are all within the nosler loading data specifications. I will run what Winchester brass I have through the FL sizing die and run them until they die but after that I'm done with Winchester brass completely.

 

[Darkker]

Unless Winchester bought/built a plant in the last roughly year, they do NOT produce any of their own cases; Olin sold that production capability about a decade ago now.

They purchase brass on a least cost bid basis. A couple years back, they were sourcing it out of Israel.

 

[Caveman Jim]

The only "New" Winchester brass I ever bought was 5 years ago, it was primed 223 brass & bought it from a private party. It has served me well sofar and has lasted 4 reloads & no signs of disaster.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

WTH? Reading this I'm surprised any one would by new Winchester brass? You can get banged up brass off the ground out in the forest! You can by once or twice fired brass from members for pennies on the dollar from members that don't look like that. There's commercial reloaders that sell used brass too. Certainly not folded at the shoulder like the OPs. I only load hand gun at this point, so maybe I'm missing something?

Mike, when you start loading for your rifles be selective and stay away from Winchester. Its garbage. For your 6.5x55, i highly suggest Lapua. Thats what i bought for mine. Its excellent stuff and you really get what you pay for. For other rifle cases, look into Starline and sig sauer. Those 2 brands have been excellent as well.

 

[bsa1917hunter]

Unless Winchester bought/built a plant in the last roughly year, they do NOT produce any of their own cases; Olin sold that production capability about a decade ago now.

They purchase brass on a least cost bid basis. A couple years back, they were sourcing it out of Israel.

I can believe that.

 

[Mikej]

Mike, when you start loading for your rifles be selective and stay away from Winchester. Its garbage. For your 6.5x55, i highly suggest Lapua. Thats what i bought for mine. Its excellent stuff and you really get what you pay for. For other rifle cases, look into Starline and sig sauer. Those 2 brands have been excellent as well.

I bought 300 rounds of PPU to shoot. Everything I've heard (read) puts PPU brass as a close second. New brass costs more than buying the brass loaded!

Lapua Brass 6.5x55 Swedish Mauser Unprimed Box of 100 - Graf & Sons

$90.00 for 100 unprimed new brass!?

 

[JuglansRegia]

Back in the 90's when I first started reloading, Winchester was my favorite pistol and rifle brass, now its Starline for handguns and LC for rifles, if not then Starline if they make it and Norma if you can find it. I have heard nothing but nice things about Lapua but have never tried any.

 

[Herb g]

No more Winchester. Period. Virgin LC for forming. Ppu is good, just have to anneal.