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Private property + CHL = Given the opportunity to leave before trespass charge?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by edison bulb, May 12, 2015.

  1. edison bulb

    edison bulb Portland, OR Well-Known Member

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    My question is for private property in Oregon that explicitly bans firearms on the premises. I went to see a movie at Regal the other day and saw the sign for the first time...turned around and put the pistol in a lockbox in the car. Now I'm considering never going back to Regal again because I feel I have the right to protect myself and family.

    Now nobody in the world knew I was carrying a subcompact 9mm. I could have easily sat down in the theater with my popcorn, as I had done for who knows how many times before, without a soul knowing the pistol is there.

    But let's say somehow someone did notice -- the cover shirt became untucked/I fall over and people see the pistol -- will I be given the opportunity to leave BEFORE the police are called to arrest me on trespass? Don't want to be arrested -- such would jeopardize my job and possibly my CHL!

    If all is well, I shall carry on in places like Panera, Starbucks, Regal...
     
  2. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    orygun, U201491, bnsaibum and 3 others like this.
  3. bolus

    bolus Portland Gold Supporter Gold Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    life is all about chances and risks, nothing is certain. I would rather carry for the remote chance of getting shot at vs the remote chance someone would notice a print and report me and the even more remote chance that the place would file charges assuming I left immediately. Odds are still quite small with both, but one choice could get me killed and the other pays for a lawyer.

    Just dont leave your gun under your seat and then go back to the theater the next day to check lost and found.
     
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  4. etrain16

    etrain16 Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    It hasn't stopped me from carrying there. Are they providing any kind of protection from a potential shooting like the one in Colorado? No.

    Now, it is their property, so they can set their own rules regarding conduct on their property. But you can't be arrested for lawfully carrying a gun if you have a CHL on their property. They can ask you to leave, and if you don't, you could be charged with trespass. Will they give you a chance to leave before calling the cops? That's entirely up to them. Depending on where you are, likely the police would be called and would come and harass you and make it seem like you're an evil person, someone that can't be trusted and someone that should be arrested for having the audacity to take steps to protect yourself. That all depends on the theater employees and the particular cops that show up. Do it in Portland and you're probably going to be given the old intimidation factor of five cops surrounding you, hands on their guns, looking all mean and threatening.

    By the way, they also have rules about bringing in outside food and beverages - and I can't count how many mothers pop open their purse right before the movie and pulling out a bunch of 'prohibited' items. I can't think of ever seeing anyone even tapped on the shoulder for violating that rule.

    I carry everywhere it's legal. As is said so often here, concealed means concealed. I've never been 'spotted' anywhere (that I know of), at least if I have, no one said or did anything.

    It's impossible to know when or where you could find yourself threatened. There really are no places that are safe these days. Shootings or violent attacks can and do happen everywhere, with particular emphasis being made by bad guys on places that are 'prohibited'. With that in mind, I consider 'prohibited' places like schools, theaters, stores, restaurants, etc., more dangerous. heck, even military bases are dangerous. I don't really want to get kicked out of anywhere or given a trespass, but I really, really don't want to be shot, stabbed or beaten. And that carries far more weight on my decision than anything like a trespass.

    Keep it on you and keep it concealed. If you dress in such a way that your clothes are easily revealing your gun, change how you dress. It's really not too difficult to pull off.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
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  5. Steve M

    Steve M Beaverton, OR Well-Known Member

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    I haven't been in a theater in a while, but the last one was a Regal and there was a sign on the door that I walked right past. If for some reason an alert employee saw a telltale bulge and confronted me I'd put on my best indignant outrage face and tell them it was a medical device and by golly they better leave me alone or they would be getting an ADA lawsuit.

    No matter why, you are trespassing if the property is posted as such or the owners/renters/leasers ask you to leave. It could be the Glock on your hip or your lack of shirt, it is the same under the law.
     
  6. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    With the exception that trespassing with a firearm comes with a harsher penalty, class-a misdemeanor vs class-c. It's funny, the idiots at the Lloyd center theater put a "no weapons" sign completely opposite of the ticket guy, so I never saw it, but my wife did. I just got a new shoulder holster for my 7.5" super blackhawk, so I was packing that an a SW442 at the time in honor of watching Django.
     
    Steve M likes this.
  7. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    The signs that I've seen at the theater have what appears to be a glock with a red line through it. I don't carry a glock so it means nothing to me!
     
  8. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    If its just a policy Ill carry into their building.. Their policy isnt designed to protect your life. And they have to ask you to leave before its trespassing. Unless there are signs posted EVERYWHERE plausible deniability can be claimed in a gun free zone with a trumped up trespassing charge.. In the day and age of cell phones no one looks up and around anymore so for all they know you didnt see it at all.. So for them to trespass you because they didnt have adequate signage and a verbal warning it wouldnt hold up.

    However.. They wont know you got one!
    Carry away. Id fear more about keeping it in my vehicle where it could be stolen than on my hip in a bigot zone.
     
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  9. F2CMaDMaXX

    F2CMaDMaXX West of Portland from England Bullet goes where now? Staff Member Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    That's the point here (ZA's post above) - Trespass is refusing to leave after being asked. They're open to all being there until you're asked to leave as the sign is not law of any kind, you're legally allowed to be there and carry, but they have the say as to whether they want you there with a weapon or not.

    For the most part, it's to dissuade open carry, we carry concealed for a reason and remember the way the laws are written; they're all you can't this that and the other until you hit the 'except' part, that exempts CHL.
     
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  10. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    if they call the cops without asking you to leave they cant arrest you for trespassing.
     
  11. JamesRL

    JamesRL Beaverton Active Member

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    I brought this question up a few years ago with a lawyer. His answer was that the "no guns" or "gun-free zone" signs are the equivalent of "no shoes, no shirt, no service" signs - they establish a rule of conduct for the business. If you don't abide by that rule, the business has the right to ask you to leave.

    Up to this point, no laws have been broken (i.e. it's not illegal to be in a store without shoes or a shirt), so the business can only ask you to leave. If you leave, then they have no legal reason to charge you - even if you blatantly ignored their signage.

    IF you refuse to leave, THEN they can call the police and ask them to remove you. If that happens - if the police arrive and escort you from the building (and you go quietly), then there STILL hasn't been a law broken. What will typically happen at that point is that you will be "trespassed" from the business, meaning that a record will be generated showing that you are no longer allowed in that business. If you ever return, they can have you arrested for trespassing (even if you're abiding by all of their posted rules).

    SO, to get in legal trouble for bringing a concealed weapon into the Regal theater, you have to be spotted, asked to leave, refuse to leave, get "trespassed" and then return.

    NOTE: there have been cases where the business calls the police BEFORE asking someone with a poorly concealed weapon to leave - if that happens, it's up to the officer to decide whether to "trespass" you or not. Strictly speaking, they're not supposed to do that unless you refuse to leave, but the situation is a bit vague.


    Jim
     
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  12. JamesRL

    JamesRL Beaverton Active Member

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    I should mention also that you can't be arrested for trespassing in a business that is open to the public UNLESS you are in an "employees only" area or have been "trespassed" from that business previously.

    Jim
     
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  13. ARKLITE881South

    ARKLITE881South USA Well-Known Member

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    I am not suggesting you break the ''law'' but, a few yrs ago a young woman Dr. was with both her parents. She was legally carrying a firearm. They started to go into a restaurant i believe it was. She decided to leave her weapon in the car. Short story, some idiot comes in after they sat down, started shooting up the place. Her Dad told her and her mother to get out a broken window. Which they did, next thing, she she's her mother back inside with her Dad, he had been shot. Then the shooter comes back and shoots/kills her mom. IF she would have had her weapon, she might, very possibly would have made a difference in the outcome. If it were me, I would do what i thought was right for me, just in case i would be put in a similar situation. Better be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Think smart, conceal in a smart way. Enjoy the movie
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2015
  14. F2CMaDMaXX

    F2CMaDMaXX West of Portland from England Bullet goes where now? Staff Member Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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  15. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    interesting how the shooting tradgedy influenced her politically.... she learned the hard way (said with all due respect)
     
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  16. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Sadly, Texas law now considers signs prohibiting carry "legal notice". You are considered trespassing if a sign is present and you enter carrying. And that is with or without a CHL. Google Texas 30.06 signs if you would like to know more.
     
  17. idRATHERbeOUTDOORS

    idRATHERbeOUTDOORS Yamhill County Active Member

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    I carry in regal every time i go.
     
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  18. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    This is the more appropriate sign for theatres:

    defense free zone.jpg
     
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  19. JamesRL

    JamesRL Beaverton Active Member

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    That was actually part of the original Texas CCW law. Most states - including Oregon and Washington - don't have provisions like that.


    Jim
     
  20. PiratePast40

    PiratePast40 Willamette Valley Well-Known Member

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    Shhhhh ... don't say that too loud. Floyd will soon be adding that to his "Texas qualification laws" next session.

    By the way, glad to see you made it over here Jim. I've enjoyed your posts on the Ruger forum.