Poly80 Down & Out.

[arakboss]

The Country’s Biggest Ghost Gun Manufacturer Has Shuttered

As its products increasingly turned up at crime scenes, Polymer80 drew scrutiny from law enforcement and policymakers.

www.thetrace.org

Ghost Gun Maker Polymer80 Reportedly Shuts Down

Polymer80, once the largest manufacturer of ghost gun kits, has been hit by numerous lawsuits and ATF regulatory action in recent years.

smokinggun.org

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[MikeInOr]

I ordered 3 Glock kits from them when they were on sale and they never sent them to me. I also honestly believe that their frame kits were way too easy to finish to a frame. The ATF really messed up when they first ruled that the kits were only 80% complete even though it takes only about 5 minutes to make a useable frame out of them. Once the ATF made that decision the rest is really on them for doing so! The fall out of Polymer 80 is AR 80% receivers and 1911 80% frames which both take actual work and craftsmanship to complete are going down with them... which is unfortunate.

[While marketed to hobbyists, the kits had strong appeal among criminals looking to acquire untraceable weapons with little scrutiny. In Los Angeles alone, police recovered more than 4,200 Polymer80 ghost guns between January 2020 and February 2023.

"This number of untraceable guns… had significant consequences for law enforcement and public safety," the Los Angeles City Attorney's Office said in a statement about Polymer80's closure.]

...I don't question that guns in the hands of felons not legally allowed to own a gun is a problem. I do question how much of a problem not being able to trace a gun actually is? Maybe I am wrong but I have a hard time believing criminals are leaving their untraceable guns at crime scenes and if they were traceable the crime would be solved. Even P80 guns cost money to assemble. I doubt most criminals would just leave them at the scene. I can see entrepreneurial hoods assembling P80 guns in a half hour and making a mint selling them to friends with felonies though... which has always been illegal.

 

[Alexx1401]

Everyone could see this was going to happen. I was kind of surprised it took this long. Of course the law makers waving their hands in victory still ignore the fact that they allow the criminals they are complaining about to roam free. Sadly a LOT of the voters who choose to remain ignorant will also ignore this.

 

[TTSX]

I'm not surprised. This was the likely end result

 

[Koda]

I like P80 ergonomics better than Glock.

I still support DIY guns but I'm not surprised at all that criminals were making P80s. The real problem isnt unserialized guns, its letting the criminals that will make them out of jail.

 

[Koda]

I do question how much of a problem not being able to trace a gun actually is?

Its not so much actually tracing guns in crime scenes its hindrance effect of prohibited persons acquiring guns that is the real net effect of requiring serialized guns (ie, registered guns).

 

[MikeInOr]

Its not so much actually tracing guns in crime scenes its hindrance effect of prohibited persons acquiring guns that is the real net effect of requiring serialized guns (ie, registered guns).

I agree.

 

[Yarome]

I also honestly believe that their frame kits were way too easy to finish to a frame. The ATF really messed up when they first ruled that the kits were only 80% complete even though it takes only about 5 minutes to make a useable frame out of them. Once the ATF made that decision the rest is really on them for doing so! The fall out of Polymer 80 is AR 80% receivers and 1911 80% frames which both take actual work and craftsmanship to complete are going down with them... which is unfortunate.

It's not surprising that gooberment overreach and frivolous lawfare would put them under, but I would say.... it seems as though those that actually believe you can slap together a polymer frame/receiver into a fully functional firearm in 5min has never done one. That's the propaganda pitch, but like many things coming out of the anti-gunners, it is nothing even remotely close to the truth.

Working polymer is easier in that it doesn't requires specialized tools like working metal, but it still requires time and skill to work them up.

It also quite easy to argue that they actually "can" require much more fettling to transform them into a fully functional and reliable firearm than.. say... doing an 80% AR receiver. By their nature, doing a project by hand is less precise and the proprietary components do not meet the same precision MFG'ing specifications that AR/1911 components do.

If you have the tools, use a precision jig... that is common with metal frames/receiver projects... and can follow basic instructions... the end product is nearly guaranteed to function reliably right out of the gate. IOW, the argument that any idiot can do one of those... where doing a project by hand with simple tools may require greater working knowledge to diagnose an issue and how to correct it isn't completely invalid.

Regardless of what is being MFG'ed... what is shocking is that a company producing perfectly legal products of any kind can be systematically targeted and put out of business by the gooberment and special interest groups simply because they don't like it.

In an ideal world, the US system is supposed to protect any group or individual from undo persecution. Not lead the charge and facilitate it.

 

[Alexx1401]

Its not so much actually tracing guns in crime scenes its hindrance effect of prohibited persons acquiring guns that is the real net effect of requiring serialized guns (ie, registered guns).

Sadly the scum will of course still have zero problem getting guns. They steal them and or buy stolen. Then of course when caught we have lots of law makers who want them turned loose again. Over and over again while they say what we really need is just one more law. One more damn law the scum will ignore but will make it harder on people who are not scum.

 

[Koda]

it seems as though that those that believe you can slap together a polymer frame/receiver into a fully functional firearm in 5min has never done one. That's the propaganda pitch, but like many things coming out of the anti-gunners, it is nothing even remotely close to the truth.

But there is a difference between functional and reliable. I seriously doubt the gangs building them to sell on the street cared about reliable. But you can build a functional one in about an hour, or less once you learn it.

 

[Koda]

Sadly the scum will of course still have zero problem getting guns. They steal them and or buy stolen. Then of course when caught we have lots of law makers who want them turned loose again. Over and over again while they say what we really need is just one more law. One more damn law the scum will ignore but will make it harder on people who are not scum.

As long as society lets violent criminals free they will take advantage of unserialized guns. That is way easier than stealing them or buying off the black market.

 

[Alexx1401]

But there is a difference between functional and reliable. I seriously doubt the gangs building them to sell on the street cared about reliable. But you can build a functional one in about an hour, or less once you learn it.

"Functional" or not the simple "fix" would be when caught with one lock them up. How often do we read of the scum who actually shoot someone who have been arrested so many times I don't think they can even keep track of it. So we need another damn law. Can't blame them, the rubes who vote for them keep falling for it.

 

[Koda]

"Functional" or not the simple "fix" would be when caught with one lock them up. How often do we read of the scum who actually shoot someone who have been arrested so many times I don't think they can even keep track of it. So we need another damn law. Can't blame them, the rubes who vote for them keep falling for it.

I agree with you but its the reality we face.
I recently learned somewhere that letting violent criminals out has been common throughout history, its always been a problem housing and feeding so many.

 

[Yarome]

But there is a difference between functional and reliable. I seriously doubt the gangs building them to sell on the street cared about reliable. But you can build a functional one in about an hour, or less once you learn it.

Yeah. I dunno that "functional" is even a given. Anyone that delves into something like a poly80 frame build would be inundated with all the troubleshooting info.

"Slide won't fully mount", "slide won't cycle past the locking block", "slide won't return to battery", "trigger won't reset", "trigger locks", "safety plunger won't engage", "failure to chamber", "failure to eject"... and on and on.

Obviously, it's not as if none will fire right out the gate, but an extremely large percentage will, and do, have basic function issues requiring a bit of diagnostics and fettling.

You'll also see a lot of folks that completely bungle their builds into scrap or simply give up on them. Just one "for example", that reporter dude that was trying to demonstrate just how easy it was for anyone to build a firearm from a poly80, but tried as he might, couldn't get it to function.. let alone fire... gave up... then transported it over state lines into a prohibited state to have a gunsmith get it to work.

 

[TTSX]

I think you guys are understating just how easy these are to assemble into a functioning gun. I made two at one point, probably took an hour tops for both combined and they both ran fine. One 9, one 40. Or maybe the people who can't put them together are retarded/lack reading comprehension skills.

 

[Koda]

Yeah. I dunno that "functional" is even a given. Anyone that delves into something like a poly80 frame build would be inundated with all the troubleshooting info.

And a criminal in the business of making them would learn that experience.

They arent that complicated, might depend on good (expensive) vs super cheap budget parts but they go together without those issues you listed. The reliability is where the real building comes in but that is often random feed/eject issues every other magazine and often doesnt show up till sever magazines are ran thru it... enough to get a criminal in trouble using them but the criminal making and selling them doesn't care. Many of them run fine the first go. It does not take a lot to build a functional one first time.

 

[bradsteen]

The real question is what's going to happen to their back stock inventory?

 

[Koda]

I wonder if this will affect P80s competitors products?

GST-9: MOD100

Explore the GST-9: MOD100 for precision and reliability. Ideal for gun enthusiasts, this product offers top-tier performance for your firearm build.

www.80percentarms.com

 

[Yarome]

And a criminal in the business of making them would learn that experience.

They arent that complicated, might depend on good (expensive) vs super cheap budget parts but they go together without those issues you listed. The reliability is where the real building comes in but that is often random feed/eject issues every other magazine and often doesnt show up till sever magazines are ran thru it... enough to get a criminal in trouble using them but the criminal making and selling them doesn't care. Many of them run fine the first go. It does not take a lot to build a functional one first time.

I mainly agree, but even doing everything right... and even if you've done a couple... it is still quite common that variations in production DO still lead to basic function issues with many of them. Your process, tools and procedure can be identical, yet many will still have some of the issues I mentioned. The main culprits being the proprietary rails, locking block and trigger housing bracket. Not even necessarily the parts themselves but the frame seating surfaces can have the smallest of variations.

A guy I know is very mechanically inclined, tool savvy, and had previously done a couple before deciding to put together 2 identical G26's. All parts he purchased at the same time, from the same sources and all OEM. One functioned flawlessly and the other would cycle but half way and came to a hard stop. He pulled all the guts out of the dysfunctional and put them into the working frame. Prefect! Pulling all the guts out of the functional and into the non working... same issue.

Both uppers and all internals worked flawless in one frame, but all failed in the other. Spec'd all the holes, parts and openings... near perfectly identical and no apparent reason one would function and the other wouldn't.

Long story short, he eventually figured it out and got it running, but it took him countless hours, multiple attempts and tons of research to finally diagnose the issue and correct it.

Another example. One of my son's buddies tried one. They work together assembling commercial robotics systems. Very well versed in precision tools and processes. They went out shooting 3 times to test fire his. It went from not being able to pick up a round at all to failure to go into battery, to a single shot unable to cycle rounds. After three attempts to get it running he simply gave up and bought himself an OEM frame.

"CAN" one be assembled and function in 30min? You bet! 5min like the propaganda claims? Not even! If you buy one, have no basic working knowledge of firearms, have nothing but a file, hand drill and sandpaper, is it a sure bet anyone is able to crank out a functional firearm? It's a crap shoot! Possibly yes, but there's a good chance you won't.

My whole point is not that it's not possible but that the narrative about 15-19yr olds slapping together fully functional firearms in 5min running amok is largely BS.

I'll also grant that the percentage increase of so called "ghost guns" is likely accurate. Like when you go from 5 to 25 in a given time frame... that's a significant increase, but let's get real. The vastly higher majority of crime guns are still stolen/straw purchase firearms. What I would be curious to see is the comparison of so called "ghost guns" that are PMF's and how many are simply firearms with defaced SN's. They are both included in those numbers. What percentage are still zip style/slam fires?

 

[Yarome]

I wonder if this will affect P80s competitors products?

Probably be the anti-gunners next target to do the same to them. Lawfare them out of business.

I did see though that the owner of Poly80 did say that their shut down may be temporary and he would be returning to the market in one form or another. We'll see.